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Author Topic: Poor Man's ELA M...?  (Read 32565 times)

J.J. Blair

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2009, 09:34:15 PM »
Aaaaah!  Gotcha.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Chris Wulff

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2009, 04:03:53 AM »
J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 08 March 2009 17:30


If you want to upgrade a T-USA 251, throw in a GE 5 star 6072, and there are some other parts you can upgrade.



Which parts? I have a Tele usa 251 and i will have no problems with doing some mods on it.


Christian Wulff
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2009, 04:20:25 PM »
Well, if you look at an original 251 and you look at the new ones, and ask yourself "which parts are made of different materials" or "what values are different," you can do what I did, and try to use the original values with parts that are closest to those in the originals.  There may be better capsule options, too.  In my case, it was to use an original CK12, which is the biggest difference.  

If you use the search function, or google, I've posted about it extensively.  I don't really feel like going into it all over again.  It's really up to you to decide what sounds better.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Lars Danielsson

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2009, 02:03:04 PM »
Dear JJ.
I am about to buy one USA Tele 251 and am thinking of the AC model or
E model. Would you say there is a lot difference?
Is the Tele CK 12 as good as the old CK12?(It is not possible to get the old CK 12.
I just tried Tims capsule in a 414 EB and like it a lot.
Could you compare USA tele capsule and Tims?
Excuse for all questions.

lars danielsson
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2009, 06:30:30 PM »
I have not heard Tim's latest incarnation, so I should not give an opinion on it.

The last Tele made CK12 I heard really landed in the correct frequency response for CK12s, but did not have the top end excitement at around 10k for me.  That's where the magic is on those capsules for me, and it was shy in that regard, compared to my favorite original CK12, by at least 2dB.  That was over a year ago.  I reported my findings to them, and I have no idea if they have addressed it or not.  

I can't comment on the AC701 v. 6072, but I've asked in Fletcher's forum, and nobody has responded to why a tube that at most costs $600 (and I know they paid about a third of that) brings a mark up of $1,000.  

Here's my suggestion:
Demo both, as well as the Bock 251, and then pick the one you like the best.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Sean Eldon Qualls

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2009, 09:08:28 PM »
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 18:30

I can't comment on the AC701 v. 6072, but I've asked in Fletcher's forum, and nobody has responded to why a tube that at most costs $600 (and I know they paid about a third of that) brings a mark up of $1,000.


I'm not a manufacturer, I'm not a number-cruncher, I'm not speaking for Telefunken because I don't work there and don't know much about the day-to-day operations (though a good friend does, we don't like to talk about work so much), I have no idea what they paid for any tubes...

But the first thing I would think of is "rejection rate".

Do you think every tube they bought works as it should in a microphone?

As well, I'm pretty sure Telefunken is in business to make money (and microphones...but money definitely ain't gonna hurt). I don't think anyone is in business to charge exactly the price they paid for the components.

JJ's right, though...definitely demo the Bock. Larger bottom octave push than a vintage 251 and the current production Telefunken, but it's one that fits. For an example, see the cover of The Meters record, "Trick Bag". Their worst album, but very fitting imagery in this case.
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Sean Eldon
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2009, 01:07:21 PM »
I thought about the rejection rate, and I've been told anecdotally what the rejection rate on those tubes is, which is pretty low.  Fletcher PM'd me, and according to him, the cost has more to do with the special order parts, which are more expensive, since they are ordered in smaller quantities, etc.

BTW, I heard a difference between the AC701 and 6072 version in the Lugo tests, but they never exchanged capsules between the two mics, so I have no idea if the difference is the tube or the capsule.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

David Bock

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Re: Poor Man's ELA M...?
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2009, 08:12:04 PM »
Quote:

BTW, I heard a difference between the AC701 and 6072 version in the Lugo tests, but they never exchanged capsules between the two mics, so I have no idea is the difference is the tube or the capsule.
I like your approach. FWIW I think the 701 has a very distinct signature.
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