R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 11   Go Down

Author Topic: imp19 discussion  (Read 18276 times)

Devin Knutson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 838
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2008, 08:55:03 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 13:54


Devin, I'm not sure if you're trying to be tactfully condescending or what. There has not been a single person, including one other engineer, that has said those vocals were so out of place that there had to be something wrong. Of course, they had never heard it placed anywhere else, either. For you to say that "there isn't any rhythmic relationship whatsoever between the vocal and the track" is insulting, not only to me... but to the other musicians that have enjoyed listening to the song. I am absolutely appalled that you would attempt to discredit my taste and my musicianship. Shifting a whole track to the right, exactly the same all the way through the song, while keeping it right on beat can hardly be compared to falling behind the pocket like a lazy lounge act. I guess I know, from the end of your post, how you feel about my rebuttal.


Well, I certainly apologize if you felt it to be insulting, I certainly didn't mean it that way.

I'm not calling into question your taste or musicianship, I am simply commenting that the placement of that vocal doesn't work.  I realize that you have said that you like it.  That's cool, man...  like what you like.  Doesn't work for me though.

From a theory standpoint, if you have melodic phrase descenders walking over the turnaround into the next phrase upswing, that can be a really happening effect here and there.  If it happens every single time, there might be room for thought.

And now, of course you are perfectly free to accuse me of being a "theory" junkie, with no taste or whatever...  Have at.  It's all good.  Smile
Logged
SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
That's a 4/4 string ostinato in D-minor!
Every sailor knows it means death!
    - Mr. Eugene H. Krabbs

J-Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1212
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2008, 09:00:39 pm »

You're a theory junkie with no taste or whatever.  Very Happy
Logged
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com

J-Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1212
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2008, 09:14:41 pm »

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 16:39

i think you're taking devin's criticism a little too personally man. it didn't read as condescending to me. the vocal *does* sound weird. if i got that track to master i would raise an eyebrow at that vocal.

the *idea* of it is cool, don't get me wrong. like i said before i can see where you were going with it, and some phrases do work great. but it's not totally in the pocket the whole time, and if it's gonna work with the timing shifted like that, it's gotta REALLY be there you know? i think if you had more time for the mix and could go through and really fine tune the timing of each phrase it could really work and be more interesting than the original, which admittedly is pretty straightforward (NTTAWWT). as it is, it's not there yet. that's all.


If that's what I was going for... it would be cool. I would have worked into a production masterpiece (if only in my mind). It was purely accidental. I thought that it felt "right", so I didn't think twice about it not being the intention. Who am I to question someone's artistic license? It sounded fine. The thing that I got out of the criticism, was that "what... you couldn't hear that it was fucked sounding? You suck." So, yes... I took it personally.

I might (for gits and shiggles) go back in and try what Devin was  saying and not have EVERYTHING on the turnaround, because I still think it sounds very interesting that way.

Logged
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com

Chris Ilett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2008, 03:56:56 am »

When I can bare to open up the session again, I'll certainly try out some of the suggestions from this too*. This is what IMP is all about, and why it's so useful.

I've not had my kit for that long, and my first set of monitors messed up pretty quickly, so I've only done 2 songs on this set.
Car stereo was broken too, which I love to use as it's where I listen to 90% of music.

Having said that I've got ears, damnit, and I totally get some of the comments, and totally don't get some of the others. At least I managed a stereo mix this time and didn't lose all the backing vocals.


*Not intended to tar anyone else with the same brush as myself.

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2008, 05:54:47 am »

i had said (elsewhere):

""the way i see it is that my job is to make it sound good in my room

the ME's job is to make it sound good everywhere else... "


to which j replied:

"that's a really flawed point of view."



what, in your opinion, is the role of the ME?

do you use one?

without a doubt, the better you know your room, the more you are aware how things will translate elsewhere

however, unless your room is perfect, you're going to be in trouble if you rely on it

even if you do the mastering yourself (a la terry), it's still best to have the right environment and do it in a separate session

cla gets his mixes mastered, right?






Logged

grantis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1407
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2008, 07:19:54 am »

maxim wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 04:54

i had said (elsewhere):

""the way i see it is that my job is to make it sound good in my room

the ME's job is to make it sound good everywhere else... "


to which j replied:

"that's a really flawed point of view."



what, in your opinion, is the role of the ME?

do you use one?

without a doubt, the better you know your room, the more you are aware how things will translate elsewhere

however, unless your room is perfect, you're going to be in trouble if you rely on it

even if you do the mastering yourself (a la terry), it's still best to have the right environment and do it in a separate session

cla gets his mixes mastered, right?









I think what J meant was...

I've heard stories of guys like Rich Coste and the like getting their mixes mastered and not having ANY EQ REQUIRED on some songs.  I believe it.  If your mix is perfect, then there's no need for an ME to EQ it.  Plain and simple.  If you know you're room (or better yet, if your room is PERFECT), then it's YOUR job to make things perfect.  

Brad Blackwood told me on IMP17 never to mix with the mastering engineer in mind.  Just make it sound good, and nail the balance and sonics as best I can.  Seems like good advice to me.
Logged
Grant Craig
Nuovo Music (Me)
Skiddco Music (Where I work)
Work History (Well, some of it anyway)

J-Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1212
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2008, 08:56:32 am »

Chris Ilett wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 02:56


Car stereo was broken too, which I love to use as it's where I listen to 90% of music.



Where in the world did you find a set of RCA cables that long?  Surprised
Logged
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com

Chris Ilett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2008, 08:59:19 am »

Same place I learnt to mix.

J-Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1212
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2008, 09:02:28 am »

grant richard wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 06:19


Brad Blackwood told me on IMP17 never to mix with the mastering engineer in mind.  Just make it sound good, and nail the balance and sonics as best I can.  Seems like good advice to me.


... which is exactly what I said. I'm glad there are a select few out there. Hell, Terry has a whole thread where he didn't have to use EQ in a freakin' mix! The rest of us... mix it what you're comfortable with in your space and let the second set of ears tweak it. Voila!
Logged
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com

j.hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3787
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2008, 10:08:25 am »

maxim wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 04:54


what, in your opinion, is the role of the ME?

do you use one?

without a doubt, the better you know your room, the more you are aware how things will translate elsewhere

however, unless your room is perfect, you're going to be in trouble if you rely on it

even if you do the mastering yourself (a la terry), it's still best to have the right environment and do it in a separate session

cla gets his mixes mastered, right?




i took your statement to mean this:

if it sounds good in your own mix room, then it's not your problem what it sounds like in the real world.

just by reading the two lines, i think my assumption is pretty black and white in what you said.

your implication is something i totally agree, i just don't think you stated it very well.

i would have written more like this:

"my job is to learn my room and how it translates to the real world.

i require an ME to ensure that thought's fruition"
Logged

J-Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1212
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #100 on: July 14, 2008, 02:11:24 pm »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 09:08


i would have written more like this:

"my job is to learn my room and how it translates to the real world.

i require an ME to ensure that thought's fruition"



Yeah, what he said.  Smile
Logged
Jason Thompson
www.4141studios.com

spoon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 107
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #101 on: July 14, 2008, 03:33:37 pm »

Thanks all who have put in a review....


The jury is in: everyone wants less bottom snare mic.

So, I re-listened to mine based on various comments...oh as an aside, I think some people are mixing up mixes and submitters.  I randomize the listening and listen blind but I can see how things can get cross-pollinated.

I say this as a couple of comments on mine and other's submissions are so off that I can believe it is a monitoring issue on the reviewer's end.  They must have mixed up submissions and submitters.

But, the snare.  Well I still like it the way it is.  I (like you all) had my choice of mics....I like the snare-filled snare.  The top mic was way too boxy for my liking.  I realize I am in the minority on this one, but I dont think I would changed that if I had a chance to revisit my mix (unless the talent requested such a change).

I go into most of my IMPs blind as to the pre-discussion.  I prefer it that way, unless the talent is on this forum and offers insight into the outcome of the final product.

So I am curious.  What about that snare (in my version) begs for a change...try to articulate this to me...is it a genre thing...you know stuff like that is what I would like to know.  Cause I really would keep it as is....you know, sounding like an actual snare drum (one type of snare drum, that is).

I realize this is all MOP (matter of opinion) but this is one MOP many of the reviewers agree on.

Cheers,
David
Logged

grantis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1407
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #102 on: July 14, 2008, 04:18:05 pm »

spoon wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 14:33

Thanks all who have put in a review....


The jury is in: everyone wants less bottom snare mic.

So, I re-listened to mine based on various comments...oh as an aside, I think some people are mixing up mixes and submitters.  I randomize the listening and listen blind but I can see how things can get cross-pollinated.

I say this as a couple of comments on mine and other's submissions are so off that I can believe it is a monitoring issue on the reviewer's end.  They must have mixed up submissions and submitters.

But, the snare.  Well I still like it the way it is.  I (like you all) had my choice of mics....I like the snare-filled snare.  The top mic was way too boxy for my liking.  I realize I am in the minority on this one, but I dont think I would changed that if I had a chance to revisit my mix (unless the talent requested such a change).

I go into most of my IMPs blind as to the pre-discussion.  I prefer it that way, unless the talent is on this forum and offers insight into the outcome of the final product.

So I am curious.  What about that snare (in my version) begs for a change...try to articulate this to me...is it a genre thing...you know stuff like that is what I would like to know.  Cause I really would keep it as is....you know, sounding like an actual snare drum (one type of snare drum, that is).

I realize this is all MOP (matter of opinion) but this is one MOP many of the reviewers agree on.

Cheers,
David


I hadn't listened to it yet, but after this, I felt I must.

For my taste, the bottom snare mic lacked impact, and I think the end result of your snare sound lacks impact.  It doesn't have much body either.  The reason I used more top mic is...I suppose...the 'boxiness' you wanted to avoid.  MOP indeed.

Hope that helps.
Logged
Grant Craig
Nuovo Music (Me)
Skiddco Music (Where I work)
Work History (Well, some of it anyway)

spoon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 107
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #103 on: July 14, 2008, 05:00:31 pm »

grant richard wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 15:18

spoon wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 14:33

Thanks all who have put in a review....


The jury is in: everyone wants less bottom snare mic.

So, I re-listened to mine based on various comments...oh as an aside, I think some people are mixing up mixes and submitters.  I randomize the listening and listen blind but I can see how things can get cross-pollinated.

I say this as a couple of comments on mine and other's submissions are so off that I can believe it is a monitoring issue on the reviewer's end.  They must have mixed up submissions and submitters.

But, the snare.  Well I still like it the way it is.  I (like you all) had my choice of mics....I like the snare-filled snare.  The top mic was way too boxy for my liking.  I realize I am in the minority on this one, but I dont think I would changed that if I had a chance to revisit my mix (unless the talent requested such a change).

I go into most of my IMPs blind as to the pre-discussion.  I prefer it that way, unless the talent is on this forum and offers insight into the outcome of the final product.

So I am curious.  What about that snare (in my version) begs for a change...try to articulate this to me...is it a genre thing...you know stuff like that is what I would like to know.  Cause I really would keep it as is....you know, sounding like an actual snare drum (one type of snare drum, that is).

I realize this is all MOP (matter of opinion) but this is one MOP many of the reviewers agree on.

Cheers,
David


I hadn't listened to it yet, but after this, I felt I must.

For my taste, the bottom snare mic lacked impact, and I think the end result of your snare sound lacks impact.  It doesn't have much body either.  The reason I used more top mic is...I suppose...the 'boxiness' you wanted to avoid.  MOP indeed.

Hope that helps.


See I thought it did have enough impact (for me).  But I did like your snare sound.  You partially answered my comment on yours by your post above...now that I know it is not a sample, what FX did you apply the snare track?

Regards,
David
Logged

MoreSpaceEcho

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 642
Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #104 on: July 14, 2008, 06:30:56 pm »

i just listened to yours again and i have to agree, the snare lacks body and impact. it's very present in the mix, which is good, but just the sound of it is kind of wimpy, there's not enough crack to it (for my taste). did you flip the phase on the bottom mic? i was hating my snare sound until i did that.

the rest of your mix is great though!
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 11   Go Up