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Author Topic: imp19 discussion  (Read 18322 times)

J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2008, 11:26:45 am »

Careful Collapse wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 18:30


7) Where did all of the high end go?  I know it's cool on this forums to talk trash about high end but yikes.  Uh, another weird delayed vocal.   ????



Yikes is right. I know I'm liking less and less treb the older I get, but like I said, going from NS10s to the ProAc is a shock to say the least. It sounded VERY dark when I got it back to my house on the Yamahas. If the mixes don't begin to brighten up for me in there... well, I am just getting old!  Surprised

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 20:13


jason thompson that vocal is just too crazy.



Dude. I've stopped listening to mixes in fear of even more tinnitus from piercing high frequencies before. But, a different angle on the rhythmic positioning of the vocal... that's a little close minded don't you think?  Sad  

jdier wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 09:02


jtexas - Curious about the chorus  vocal shift... did you think it was wrong, or just prefer your position?  I like the kick bass interaction.  Did you distort the bass.  sounds great.  really nice approach on the distorted guitars.  Love the false ending.  Really love that.  genious.



I am almost in full agreement with Osumosan about the song. Retro pop hit... yes. Rock anthem, not so much!  Very Happy  I really did think retro wave meets road song. I wanted it up to date sounding with the heavy compression on the vox and dry. I'm glad you like the bass, but it's close and no cigar. The LA4 added the distortion, really just some edge, but it fattened it up a lot (too much!). For the "jump in your truck and drive song", I wanted the bottom and that nice hit on the snare. I think the cymbals were harsh in places. I understand your time crunch now. Overall, though, the OH were really usable. I think the kit sounded nice. The vocal thing was a complete accident. But I never missed a beat. I had "If You Were Here" by the Thompson Twins in my head the whole week before. The vocal placement I chose really reminded me of that... or Dave Gahan or something. I know it's hard for everyone to hear it like I do. God knows it's hard for me to hear it the "right" way!  Laughing I'm glad you liked the ending. I wanted more. I figured it was screaming to sort of end the way it started, you know?

I love the song. It's been stuck on me like glue. (I only listen to my version though, since everyone else did it wrong.)  Surprised
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Jason Thompson
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J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2008, 11:41:43 am »

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 15:15

ATOR wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 14:41


J-Texas

My school of thought is if you make it sound perfect and badass in your room... unless it's perfect... it will be a nightmare for the ME.


Of course you try to make your mix as perfect and badass as possible in the room you work. We have mastering to make up for our room anomalies. If it doesn't sound perfect and badass in our room it's higly unlikely mastering can make it sound perfect and badass outside of it.



FUCKING BACK BUTTON!!!!!!!  Twisted Evil

Dude. I set myself up for that response. I'm not explaining it correctly, I guess. I just make a mix that I'm comfortable with and see if it sounds good in a few different places. I think that the second set of ears for the tweaking of EQ by an ME is the logical next step. I don't even pretend to hear what you people hear man. In this case, I got in the truck with it and new two things: I immediately heard the things you guys are talking about and I knew I didn't have time to change it.




THIS IS FROM MAXIM IN THE WHATEVER WORKS FORUM.

Why couldn't I have just said this:

"the way i see it is that my job is to make it sound good in my room

the ME's job is to make it sound good everywhere else... " Rolling Eyes
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Jason Thompson
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loudsongsinc

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2008, 12:38:32 pm »

Long azz post warning!!

In the spirit of the project, I offer my first impressions of every  mix I could get to open.  I commented on things that stuck out as really good or not good, everything else seemed acceptable.  Note that I am NOT a professional nor do I have a professional listening environment (240 cans and Yamaha monitors in a treated but very small room).

I will be happy to elaborate upon request.



1)Maxim -  Good LdVox tone, good guitar tone,  DoYa’s loud, exposing tuning, leslie(?) on noodling guitars doesn’t fit, kick
and snare fit well, cymbals fizzy?

2) Ballenger-didn’t open

3)teleric - acoustic and drums in different rooms, would like some ambience on kick;  needs bass; DoYa’s loud, exposing tuning, removing drums works, really builds toward last chorus, Good Mix

4) patrikt - Acoustic muddy;  drums sound very good if not dynamic, cymbals too loud;  rhythm guitars need some verb;  good LdVox tone, but low in the mix; mix gets lost behind  the drums a lot

5) MGA - lots of verb on snare (and OH’s?);  LdVox sounds small;  kick gets boxy in the busy parts of the mix;  lots of verb on DoYa’s;  cymbals too loud;

6)  Jason Thompson - Too much dist on Bass for the verses;  cardboard kick;  vocals are too distracting to  listen more. . .

7) Greg Thompson - Big Mix;  LdVox disappear on “for my invitation”;  too much distortion on  noodling guitar;  good bass;  Do Ya’s very good, don’t notice the bad notes;  Very Good Mix

8) ATOR - Acoustic stereo effect wigs me out;  too much snare bottom;  good bass;  like the guitar tone a lot;  didn’t like the ending, but would’ve been very cool if the DoYa’s were well performed

9) MGT - Drums sound good, just not for this song;  kick has no bottom; LdVox spitty;  the guitars are boring into my skull;  good DoYa’s;  lots of high mid everywhere;  I pulled this up on the Yamaha’s just for fun, now I’m bleeding;

10) Podgorny - bass a little boomy;  LdVox too “in your ear” (slamming into an 1176?);  dry vox and drums don’t play well with very wet guitars

11) Jnickel - LoFi acoustic odd;  there’s a blanket over the drums; no gtr noodling. . . hmm;  good LdVox tone;  guitar fights the Vox for space in last chorus;  

12)Loudsongsinc - kick is low-middy;  thin LdVox, kinda spitty; chorus guitars need some balls;  

13)  Jdier - Long verb on LdVox sounds out of place on dry drums and bass;  drums squiiiished and overpowering for the verses; cymbals too loud; kick has no bottom;  good LdVox tone;  Very Good Chorus

14) chrisilett - LdVox too wet in intro; need to roll off some high end on verb;  BGVox too loud;  very HiFi, smiley face EQ sound to the mix;  second verse doesn’t work, DoYa’s not well performed and lofi kick doesn’t fit; Gtr processing on end is a genre violation (to steal a term)

15) sstillwell - HUGE drums, too huge, too squished;  LdVox very wet and spitty;  nice stereo treatment of noodling guitars;  BGVox sound  very good, but too loud and wide, good solo tone, good DoYah’s

16) Huds - won’t play

17) Osumosan - Nice drums;  bad tone on noodling guitar-overdistored;  good bass but could use more low mid;  DoYah’s too loud;  LdVox buried 2nd prechorus and chorus;  well rounded mix

18) Telesound - don’t like the acoustic panning;  good  LdVox tone, present without spitting/essing;  good guitars;  DoYah’s were a bit forward, move them back with hi rolloff and verb?;  Very Good Mix but kinda squished

19) Carefulcollapse - don’t like the acoustic panning;  Big Mix;  too much cymbal; DoYah’s are pretty large and wide; LdVox in chorus could use some meat and/or volume, abrupt end;  nothing  jumps out as spectacular, but nothing  bad;  Very Good Mix

20) MSE didn’t play

21) mdifazio - too wet; way too wet;  did I mention the effects? there’s a lot of them

22) spoon - drums match the song, good sound, but too much snare bottom;  LdVox ambience could’ve waited until the gtrs come in, it’s fine then;  BGVox could use some automation;  DoYah’s too loud/show the bad performance and cover the LdVox;  LdVox buried a bit in 2nd chorus; nice fade

23) Rankus - acoustic a bit loud;  drums very good, hard rock scooped kick, but good;  noodling is loud and centered over the LdVox;  BGVox too wide; DoYah’s show the performance;  LdVox sounds good and cuts through the chorus, there’s a nice pocket for them; Very Good Mix

24) YZ - Bass a little round;  where’s the kick?;  too much snare bottom;  everything is a little too ambient;  Good BGVox EQ,verb and mix; like the arrangment;  the mix is closer to right than it sounds at first, little less verb, more kick and it is REAL good

25) ElDuderino - LdVox a bit low;  drums sound good, but are overpowering;  noodling gtr has bad tone; gtrs sound good, but don’t mix well, lot of high mid content that hides the Vox

26) Antman - snare a bit disconnected until the gtrs come in;  LdVox low;  gtr tone plays well with the vox; good mix

27) DevinK - don’t like the verb choice for drums;  LdVox sibilant;  REALLY like the creativity shown on this one, maybe cause I’ve heard the “straight” mix 500 times;  I don’t like the ending a lot, but I like that he stuck with his theme, Very Good Mix

28) slash - those drums are nuts squished;  verse gtrs too big;  Vox buried;  everything is huge, no space around anything  



Scott Bryant
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Scott Bryant
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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2008, 01:06:07 pm »

grant richard wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 09:51

PaulyD wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 06:39

PaulyD wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 03:33

Who are the band and the engineer on this?


Got it. Y'all will find out, too...in due time...



Indeed....google the chorus lyrics.


Umm, Huds critique post, one page back, already spilled the beans.
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Philip

J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2008, 01:31:53 pm »

loudsongsinc wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 11:38



6)  Jason Thompson - Too much dist on Bass for the verses;  cardboard kick;  vocals are too distracting to  listen more. . .



Wow. Another one? I think I'll just cop out too. My crits will be much shorter. Or would you feel cheated? Because I do.
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Jason Thompson
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ATOR

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2008, 01:55:13 pm »

Jdier

Curious if you can share how you got the snare sound.


Sure!

Apart from just eqing and compressing the snare I did a couple of other things all at a barely audible level:

- I ran the kick+snare through a short room reverb and crushed it.
- there's a fat plate with a gate on the snare
- I duped the snare and distorted it.

You're not supposed to really hear these things but they all add up to a bigger snare. Listening back I think that I'll turn these elements down a bit to get a more natural sounding snare. It's a little too obvious now.

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Devin Knutson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2008, 03:44:04 pm »

Thanks for the comments everyone.  I do seem to have a love or hate it approach, don't I?  Again, for the record, there were no samples used, no strings or organ or keys of any kind.  The string swell thing in mine was a guitar note processed through a GSP-2101.

I am going to post my critiques as I get to them, probably one at a time.  I want to go into more detail on each mix that I listen too, so I'll be listening to parts over again, etc.  This means that I'll need to walk away after only a couple mixes, but I'll get through them all.  And each should be somewhat fresh that way.

I will do them in order of submission thread appearance.

First up to follow shortly.
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loudsongsinc

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2008, 04:00:06 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 12:31

loudsongsinc wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 11:38



6)  Jason Thompson - Too much dist on Bass for the verses;  cardboard kick;  vocals are too distracting to  listen more. . .



Wow. Another one? I think I'll just cop out too. My crits will be much shorter. Or would you feel cheated? Because I do.




If you would like a more in depth critique, please ask, don't get defensive.  I believe you said in your first post, "From an mix engineer's prospective... I'm embarrassed."

I agree that your vocal timing REALLY works in some places.  Many of the verse lines and one or two in the prechorus/chorus sound VERY cool in your version.  If you had planned that and shifted/stretched/shrunk each line word by word it could be fabulous.  As it is, the bad lines are so bad they hurt.

That said, after listening to the whole tune, here's what I hear in the mix, minus the vocal timing:

snare and overheads sound good; bass gtr takes the low lows but the kick doesn't fill in the low mids, kick doesn't have low lows or low mids or a lot of attack, it's just there;  bass gtr sounds good on the prechorus and chorus, distortion too audible in verses;  DoYa's sound much better than they were recorded;  good volume balances;  LdVox sound is good, little sibilant;  good gtr tones (reamped/amp sim?);  nice fade out

cheating averted

Scott
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Devin Knutson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2008, 04:03:24 pm »

ATOR:
The chorus on the guitar seems quite thick and makes the bass seem even more out of tune when it hits.  I Like the snare sound quite a bit, but it might be a touch loud.  The kick drum seems a bit mushy, I like the bottom thump of it, but I'm missing the attack a bit.  Overheads seem well under control.  

The vocal treatment is nice.  Can't quite decide if I hear a buried plate back there, or if it's a result of the overall compression.  No matter... it works.

The guitar scratches after "for my invitation" seem disconnected from the rest of the mix.  Like the guitars a lot.  Nice and bright/crunchy without being too over the top.

Second verse moves along nicely.  Again, the guitar chugs seem disconnected into the pre chorus.  

BGVox through the chorus seem to sit quite nicely.  

Guitar lead is nice.  

Boy, I can sure hear the squash on the snare at the break.  I think I would have ducked it a bit there.  The way that buzz remains constant all the way through the silence is quite distracting and non musical for me.  

Do-yas are nice, but I find myself focusing on the pitch rather than the groove.  

Second chorus seems to kick up a notch to another level... Nice.

Aagh!  It just stopped.  I mean... it just...  stopped.  Needs some cleanup on the end there.  There seems to be a compressed overhead to the right that rings and then abruptly gets gets muted as though the engineer just realized that it was still on.

Overall impressions:
Quite like it.  I think it was over-compressed, but then I tend to think that about most things these days.  I just don't understand how that became fashionable, much less tolerable.

The bass guitar being so out of tune kept rearing it's head for me.  It kept pulling me out of the moment to focus on pitch issues rather than the groove and the the song.

There seems to be a slightly scooped, smiley-face sound to the overall frequency balance, but certainly nothing that a competant ME couldn't correct.

Nice job!
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Devin Knutson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2008, 04:42:26 pm »

Antman:
The acoustic guitar in the intro is untouched.  Perfect.  It's a really good recording, and sounds nice the way it is.

Again with the bass out of tune.  It just really jangles my nerves when it comes in.  It seems to undermine the total pro sound we were just hearing from the ac guitar.

Drums are nice, perhaps just a smidge more click on the BD.  Hat and ride seem well controlled and seated, but the crashes are somehow brittle and too loud.  Almost like they were overdubbed.

I like the space on the snare.  It seems to blossom briefly after each hit before tucking back in.

The bass seems a bit flabby.  Perhaps a touch more articulation would have been nice.  This is a tough line though, because it would accentuate even more how out of tune it is.

Vocal seems well seated.  Perhaps a touch low.  I can't decide whether I like them totally dry like that or not.  It seems to fit, but I find myself wishing for some kind of space or motion there.

The Color guitar is maybe just a touch loud, but not that much really.

Lead Vocal could come down a touch through the "from the bed" bit at the end of the chorus.  It seems to really take over.

The back vox through the do-ya's are really dry.  They're actually sticking out they're so dry.  They're not too loud, but they're kind of drawing attention to themselves by being so separate from the music.  I think I would have tried to find a way to tuck them in a bit more with some space.  Also, I can really only hear the top voice in the later ones.  Those could be balanced better I think.

Ending is nice and clean, but feels a bit long.  Good post-walk for DJs though.  Smile


Overall Impressions:
Nice balances for the most part although there were a couple things that sort of stuck out in spots.  I didn't find myself actually thinking about the 2 bus compression, but there was still something of a slightly pinched, nasal quality to the overall sound that I can't quite put my finger on.  Once the acoustic guitar was out of the picture, I didn't notice the bass tuning (or rather, lack thereof) quite so much, although it continued to bug me in spots throughout.

I think it's a good mix.
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SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
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MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2008, 04:54:18 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 16:26



MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 20:13


jason thompson that vocal is just too crazy.



Dude. I've stopped listening to mixes in fear of even more tinnitus from piercing high frequencies before. But, a different angle on the rhythmic positioning of the vocal... that's a little close minded don't you think?  Sad  


yeah, you're right. apologies. it was hard listening to all of these in a row (which i did twice) and hearing yours with the vocal shifted...in context of the rest of them it was REALLY distracting. i just listened to yours again, by itself, and i have to admit i was kind of digging the vocal like that. it still sounds fucked up but i can see where you were going with it. the last line of the chorus works really well like that.

overall i thought your mix was good, true to the band. (well, except for the vocal thing, they would probably kill you:) dark for sure, but i've mastered enough records to know that's not really a problem. and i really like what you did with the end.

better?
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J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2008, 06:35:16 pm »

ATOR – Wide. Chorus-y. Flabby snare. Nice vox. Like the space on the vox. I like the electrics, but it was weird in the middle and then spread. Nice dirty bass thing. Yeah, don’t like the waka, waka guitar in the middle. PO though. It seems like the chorus vocal is one beat ahead, though. : ) A little delay spread out on the lead guitar? Nice. Do Yah’s a little lost. Cool ending.

ANTMAN – Nice tight drums. You exploited those nasty cymbals, though IMO. Tasty delay thing on the vox. With this mix, the snare could be a little more powerful. It’s nice in the verses, but gets lost in the heavy parts. It would be ok for it to be the star in the verses. Something bugs me about the vox in the chorus, they seem a little ahead of the beat. : ) Lead could come up a little more. No reason for the rhythms to be that powerful and wimpy lead (Needs more 200 to 350 like the rhythms have). Do Yahs are getting lost. I edited in a hat where there was a missed stick there. I really heard it in yours. Nice ending.

CHRIS ILETT – Immediately weird early reflection on the acoustic. Needs de-essing in a serious way on the vox. I like the snare, but it doesn’t really seat in the mix. Almost sounds like dudes jamming and you wish the guitars would turn up. IMO the BGVs weren’t in tune enough, or even that well performed to be THAT highlighted. Sounds like some dude in the bathroom trying to harmonize during playback. I really don’t understand the kick thing. No lead. Chris, balances are just way off to me. I like the “hey Ma, look what I can do” guitar effects at the end… not appropriate for this I don’t think. And I’m sure your vox were ahead too, I didn’t notice for some reason. : )

JASON THOMPSON – Way too much low end. Sounds very muddy. Vocal could come up a hair. Nice drums. Overall dark. This gels for me guys. Glued. Eureka!!! That vocal sounds right on time! : ) I like the mids in these guitars. It flows between the parts. Do Yahs a little lost. Vocal definitely could come up. That 10K vocal thing is bothering me to no end. Nice ending. You’re a genius! LOL!!!

CAREFUL COLLAPSE – Wow. Panning. Nice bottom. Cymbals are killing me. I like the sustain on the guitar. Sounds thin, though,  like “Personal Jesus” or something. Nice vocal compression. Maybe a gate though? Sounds like someone breathing heavy on the phone. You pervert. Man, that chorus vocal seems ahead of the beat or something. ; ) I like this. I like what you have going on in the bass tones. I don’t know how necessary it was to reamp or plug or whatever you did on the guitars. The tones were very useable IMO. Nice Do Yahs. Your 7k to 11k could be fine tuned to match the nice stuff you have going on in the lower freqs. Like the punch of the snare. Could use more crack though (couldn’t we all?)  Abrupt ending my man.

SSTILLWELL – Yikes. Mids. Powerful drums man. How in the hell did the vocal end up overpowering those vocal by that much? I’m all for click in the kick, but it sounds like Lars playing with the Wallflowers. I love the quick delay on the guitar. I was about to say AWESOME job on the attention to the BGV’s, but then that low harm came in on the right side! LOL. I like the strings you got out of the bass guitar. Lead voc is just too far out front. Personal preference, I think… but the BGV’s are a mess man. All over the field… and soft panned at that. Good ending.

HUDS – Somebody turn off the chorus! LOL. Your drums sound good. Where are they? That acoustic is stealing the show man. You play guitar don’t you? Takes one to know one. Wait. I think you sing too! LOL. I think this could have really benefited from some more aggressive 2 buss compression. Glue stuff together. I like the lead guitar treatment. Do Yahs are getting lost. There’s not a whole hell of a lot going on down there in the basement. Add some beef. It just drops off after like 150-100 or so. I like the guitar player drifting off into space ending too.

TELERIC – I really expected the drums to really be big from the size of the space you put the acoustic in. Exploited the nasty cymbals. You really limited this thing, huh? Unfortunately it sounds like I could hold this mix cupped in my hands. Cool delay on the lead guitar. I think this mix is all there, but it needs to break free. Very constrained. I like the breakdown, cool idea.  Oh yeah… your vocal is off too! LOL. Boy, is that right guitar soft panned? You need a spanking.

JDIER – Early reflections. Man that cymbal thing is a thorn in my ass. I like this. Everything is very upfront. Oviously this song wanted the drums up front. Nice. What the hell? I was just about to say, “no gguitar in the middle?” Then that delay thing happens. IMO… I don’t know. I wish I would have done this with my lead vocals. Sounds great. You really tamed those sibilant things that bothered me. I like the space. Kick sounds kind of weak to me. Actually everything like 70-60 down. I like the compression on the OH. Just enough to make it rock without it pumping all crazy. There was that missed hat! LOL. Ps. Your vocals were a beat ahead! : )

PODGORNY – Somebody. That’s some compression on that acoustic. I like the drums a lot. SUSTAINNNNNN. Cool. The delay makes it sound like you borrowed the Depeche Mode guitar. A little de-essing, editing the horny phone call panting, and just a squnch more volume on the lead voc. Your after my heart with the heavy comp on those though. Tasty BGV. Liked the delay filling up the stop on the lead guitar. All in all this is very fat and groovin’. Did I tell you that your vocal is about one whole beat ahead? It’s very noticeable on the choruses. : ) One thing that I just now noticed… when all the stuff comes in, you made that nice cutting snare sound like a 14x8 wood snare. Personal preference, that’s all.

YZ – Weird room verb. IMO this needed to either be big or dry. Drums are very small. I’m starting to adjust from the last one. Yeah. There’s really nothing to support all of that cymbal, guitar, vocal stuff. The bass is carrying the whole rhythm it sounds like. Nice lead. Nice dynamics in this one. I think some 2 buss would have helped to seat this vocal in there. I like it up front, but it’s beginning to sound like a karaoke tape. 2 buss would gel this together, but don’t lose the dynamics. I like that you saw the necessity of  a fade out on this one and the reprise of the chorus was excellent. That was my second choice. I just like the false ending idea more. Opinions, options. Great idea. By the way… your vocal sounded out of place. Like it was a beat ahead or something. : )

OSUMOSAN – Nice space. Heavy on the vocal though. I need more punch in the snare if you’re gonna do that to the kick. Like I said on a mix earlier, I don’t think it was necessary to totally change the guitar sounds. They were cool to me. Yours sound like emulated plugin stuff. Nice bass guitar… I like the strings, they come out too much a lot of times though. Get that under control and it’s beautiful. I think the release is nice on your 2 buss, but it’s the attack that is bothering me. I’d have to listen again on that. A little slower, I think. Great ending.

RANKUS – I think that drum compression treatment would work any other time, but it’s totally exploiting that junk in the cymbal. Solid kick man. I think here, it’s almost like the rest of the drums sound killer, so how do you fuck up your whole drum mix to compensate for trash on the cymbals. You do another take. I’m sitting here thinking about this the whole time. Why? Because it’s the only thing that really bothers me about this mix. This is the first time I’ve had to start one over, but I’m going to. Whoa! Shitty ending man… clean up after yourself! LOL. 2nd listen. That kick is awesome. Maybe missing a little bass guitar. Lead licks may be a little out front. This is nit-picky though. Yes. Too loud for me. Besides that cymbal shit, and the fact that your vocal is a beat ahead… this is very listenable. I like it.

MARTTHIE 08 – Big drums. Nice drum compression. Like the sustain you got. I like this. Wow, that guitar on the right is fucked up to me. Great drums compression man. The second part of that verse… the drums sounded like Alex Van Halen for some reason. LOL. PAN THOSE GUITARS man! LOL. There’s some wacky shit on those electrics. I think it’s just EQ, it’s fine. It’s cool. Hard pan those suckers and during the chorus do some different EQ man, that’s wacky. I like this a lot. I definitely see where you were going with it and it hits hard. Nope there’s some plugs or something on the guitars too I see it at the end. That one on the right……… ps. Move your chorus vocals to the right one beat while you’re at it! ; )

DEVIN KNUTSON – I’ll have you know that it’s 5pm on the east coast, so I figured it was okay to get some wine. I also took out the trash to give my ears a rest. Don’t worry, I washed my hands before I touched your mix! Let’s go. Creative. I hear that you got the Depche Mode guitarists too. Wet, dry. Left, right. Chopped… hey it’s 4:20. How appropriate. I lose the drums in the choruses. They sound nice though. I like all the bells and whistles man, but this isn’t that kind of song to me. I think it would have been WAY more effective used here and there. It really seems to showcase you instead of the song. It’s like a remix. It’s VERY creative though.

J.NICKEL – That’s cool on the acoustic. That f’ing cymbal thing is like someone kicking me in the nuts and spitting in my face. A little de-essing on the vox. Good drum compression. I like this as a dark mix. Bass guitar gets kind of honky once in awhile. You left it dull. I like that. That’s what I was going for too. Nice BGV’s. This would open up very awesome with a shelf around 12k and up I think. Good mids.

JDIER – I HOPE THAT THE FIRST ONE WAS IT.

EL DUDERINO – Acoustic compression. Nice drums dude. Another plugin? Those electrics sound full. Nice. The starting of the second verse is where everything comes together for me on this one. The little lick in the background gets lost though. I like the mids in this one. I think I’m done talking about the cymbal thing. But you know what? Your vocal is a beat ahead! LOL. I don’t have a lot to bitch about on this one. Maybe a scooch up on the lead vocal? The Do Yahs too. I thin there’s a place with this lead vocal where it can be too far up or too far back. It’s weird. It was hard to seat for me. When I did get it, it sounded a hair too far back. Like this one. Cool ending.

GREG THOMPSON – Another chorus thing. Nice drums. “For my invitation” sounds very disconnected. Like some punch-in or something. I LOVE the feeling of that guitar riding the high strings in the verses. I hate the plugin treated guitar. I’m not sure about the singer enjoying himself in the bottom of the Grand Canyon either. Man IS that a plugin? I could have used harder panning in the guitars too. Nice ending. Whoa. That was quick though (fade).

GRANT RICHARD – That hurts my ears like a Sly and the Family Stone Record! LOL. You mixed this like it was heavy rock, I think, man. The pump on the OH is distracting. As is that kick for this song. I like how all of the other elements gel though. Very full throughout the spectrum. Nice. A little more lead please? Filtered BGV’s? Not sure about that. I like the lead vocal. BGV’s here, there, everywhere. That’s strange to my brain. Left, right, group, spread, filtered, straight. It’s too much IMO. Guitars are nice.

SLASH – WOW-WEE- What in the world on the vocals? I flanger or chorus pops out once in a while. Man, that’s a lot of compression. Sounds like extreme EQ before it hits the drum compression. Plugs on the guitars? Bro… this is muddy and distorted. Even though everything is spread out, with that much pookie on everything, it makes it very suffocated.

PATRIK T – HEAVY compression. Fucking cymbals! Guitars are a little loud in the chorus. Nice tight drums. That lead vocal could be tamed a little more. This is very dirty. I think you should listen to this mix with the left guitar (chorus) turned down a tad and THEN pan those suckers. It will make clearer what happening on those drums and the lead vocal. A little automation would be nice on the lead vox. It sounds like you have a lot of compression on the drums, but 2 buss would tie this together and also wrangle-in some of those things jumping out. Dirty ending. You need a beating! : )

MAXIM – Bass is heavy, huh? I love the early use of the Do Yah’s. I would love to trade places with the acoustic and that dirty guitar. The reason? In this mix… I now miss the acoustic. It was out there all alone and now I miss it. I know you replace it with another guitar, but I still miss it. Did you know that you have the chorus vocals like a beat early? LOL. Leslie delay thing on the lead? Interesting. I love the hard panning. WOW. You got the Depeche Mode guitar too? That guy is busy these days! More kick, less bass guitar and I like this.

MGAUDIO – Where’s the beef in the snare man? Actually, it sounds like there’s a hole all the way from 150-500. “Ode to Fletcher and Munson” man. This would slam if there was some meat between the buns. Wait! Did I say that out loud? There’s a lot of 1.5k to 3K or something on that snare. Very out of place. As was that incredible verb on the BGV. This is cool to me (besides the above mentioned).  Dirty ending. Get a rope.

SPOON – I like. A little too much of that bottom snare mic for my taste. Lead vox a smidge loud and heavy on the mids. I think the untouched vox had a lot. This could use some extra compression on the vox (this is not just because I love it). I need some more beef in the snare. The bass guitar and kick sound like they’re married and happy together. Another mix, that IMO, could use some more high bass/low mids. High BGV a little hot for me. By the way… your lead vocal is a beat early. ; )

MORE SPACE ECHO –  (couldn’t download it. Come back to it)

LOUDSONGSINC – BOOM! A few less dB on that low end concentration. Lead vocal could use some taming. This is not melting together for me. It sounds pretty much “faders up” with a little EQ and verb. Nice ending.

MDIFAZIO – Another room mix. Man. I gave a disclaimer earlier. I’ve had wine. My feet are tingling. I’m here to tell you that the life has been sucked out of this mix. It’s like a blackhole is pulling things out of it. The weird harmonics going on in the overly processed guitars is weird. It’s swirling and ringing. There is absolutely no midrange in this at all. The vocal is over everything. I AM NOT RIPPING YOU man. Find what it is that you did to these tracks. Did you do major eq and then compress that and have to turn things down? Take all of that shit off of there and see where you stand.

DAVID BALLENGER – Smooth bass sound. Ok dude. Someone said that we did something similar. This is not at all similar. Your vocal IS a beat ahead of the “real” thing. I thought that mine (being a beat later) sounded a little more moody. Wait! Did you just cut out a line? YIKES. Anyway, I thought mine sounded a little more moody. You moved a guitar too? Anyway, I thought mine sounded a little more moody… this really does sound wrong to me. It’s early, but not even in any “pocket”.  

I’m sorry man, but this sounds fucked up and I’m really offended now that a comparison was made between my vocal and this. I COULD say “no offense” to you, but… it’s constructive criticism man. “odd” and “off” are two totally different things.

Over and out.








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J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2008, 06:53:23 pm »

loudsongsinc wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 15:00

J-Texas wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 12:31

loudsongsinc wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 11:38



6)  Jason Thompson - Too much dist on Bass for the verses;  cardboard kick;  vocals are too distracting to  listen more. . .



Wow. Another one? I think I'll just cop out too. My crits will be much shorter. Or would you feel cheated? Because I do.




If you would like a more in depth critique, please ask, don't get defensive.  I believe you said in your first post, "From an mix engineer's prospective... I'm embarrassed."

I agree that your vocal timing REALLY works in some places.  Many of the verse lines and one or two in the prechorus/chorus sound VERY cool in your version.  If you had planned that and shifted/stretched/shrunk each line word by word it could be fabulous.  As it is, the bad lines are so bad they hurt.

That said, after listening to the whole tune, here's what I hear in the mix, minus the vocal timing:

snare and overheads sound good; bass gtr takes the low lows but the kick doesn't fill in the low mids, kick doesn't have low lows or low mids or a lot of attack, it's just there;  bass gtr sounds good on the prechorus and chorus, distortion too audible in verses;  DoYa's sound much better than they were recorded;  good volume balances;  LdVox sound is good, little sibilant;  good gtr tones (reamped/amp sim?);  nice fade out

cheating averted

Scott


Thank you Scott. I respect that. Please don't expect that THAT was getting defensive or our little internet relationship will never work and I'll have to walk out on you and you'll be PM'img me for months. I'm direct. You'll know (with this disclaimer) when I'm heated, bro.

Agreed on everything you said. Except for the distortion the bass, which I mentioned before was intentional. Guitar tones are what they are. Nothing but EQ.

Good medicine... received! THX.

JT
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Devin Knutson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2008, 06:55:20 pm »

Chris Ilett:
I like the sound of the intro.  It feels a bit long though.  I like the way the drums come in with everything else at the pre-chorus, but I wanted some more momentum into the second half of the verse there.  It just kinda stayed the same till then.

I like the vocal treatment.  It's close and intimate without being distractingly bone dry.

The bass is out of tune, and seems a bit mushy.

The drums seem squished and have some frequency balance issues.  Sounds like smiley-face EQ.  Or like a multi-band compressor is digging in way to deep on the lower mids.

At the turnaround back into the head, it feels like I can hear a fader move.  Can't put my finger on it, but it seems like it builds up, but then doesn't fall back into the head smoothly.  Like something was cut off abruptly at beat three.

Second verse seems kind of plodding to me.  Still hearing the tuning issues in the bass.  It's distracting.

Guitars seem a bit thin in the second pre-chorus.  Background voxes are both too loud in the chorus.  More guitar, please.

The breakdown idea is interesting, although I don't understand the kick drum choice here.  it's all mid.  and the verb is just strange.  I think I would have taken all the space off the voice and made it really close, and dropped the kick to a subliminal sub frequency heartbeat kind of thing.  That might have worked better for me.

I really like the way it kicks back into the groove after the break.  The snare and guitars are perfectly locked here, and it really gives it that sense of momentum back into the main groove.

Do-Yas's are balanced nicely.

Background vocals are again too much in the second chorus.

I think I like the weird wash tremolo thing there at the end, but it cuts in too abruptly for me.  I'm like "Where'd the guitars go?"  I think I would have transitioned from the straight sound into that hyper processed thing more slowly, and then faded it quicker at the end.

Overall Impressions:
It's close.  The big thing with this one for me is that it just didn't seem to have any sense of forward momentum.  It's a bit lifeless.  It needs a bit of excitement.  The way the background vocals are presented seems a bit lackadaisical, and the guitars just aren't punching through for me.  I think that some of the overall balance issues with the vocals may have helped here.  And I think you may have lost me at the breakdown.
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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2008, 06:57:44 pm »

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 15:54

J-Texas wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 16:26



MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 20:13


jason thompson that vocal is just too crazy.



Dude. I've stopped listening to mixes in fear of even more tinnitus from piercing high frequencies before. But, a different angle on the rhythmic positioning of the vocal... that's a little close minded don't you think?  Sad  


yeah, you're right. apologies. it was hard listening to all of these in a row (which i did twice) and hearing yours with the vocal shifted...in context of the rest of them it was REALLY distracting. i just listened to yours again, by itself, and i have to admit i was kind of digging the vocal like that. it still sounds fucked up but i can see where you were going with it. the last line of the chorus works really well like that.

overall i thought your mix was good, true to the band. (well, except for the vocal thing, they would probably kill you:) dark for sure, but i've mastered enough records to know that's not really a problem. and i really like what you did with the end.

better?



Wow. Now I have a complex... like I'm muscling motherfuckers into a good crit or something!  Laughing  I just wanted people to see another POV, which you did, like you did... and I thank you.
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