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Author Topic: imp19 discussion  (Read 16536 times)

MGA

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2008, 01:15:30 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 09:45


Brother. I think you MAY have some monitoring issues. I mean, there were a number of times when you commented on drums being "muffled" that I didn't understand. A couple "a little too much" on some high freq or mid where I thought it was outrageous.



Well here is what I ... I download the mp3, load them up in my DAW (all in sequence), hit play and then I just type down what _I_ _think_ _might_ be wrong, which isn't easy for me, because when I'm mixing and I think something is lacking highend, or lowend or whatever, I just start EQing it accordingly and sometimes find out that that wasn't what's wrong and the problem I was after was something else. Plus it is kind of hard to stay objective when you've already listened to 5 or more 4 minute pieces which are all the SAME song. Also what makes it even harder is the fact that the mixes haven't the same loudness, etc... oh and the fact that I'm a just hobbyist in an untreated room.
With muffled drums I meant that the whole thing wasn't as open. Like ... well imagen sitting in front of a drum kit and playing/listening to it. It is open, loud and has this sound ... don't know how describe, so e.g. on Podgorny's mix it was kind of like the kick fighting over the bass or something .. it might be a taste/preference thing though. I thought muffled was fitting (like muffled as in "not clearly understandable"). But don't get me wrong the drums are fine (all of the mixes, with some exceptions are pretty good, that's what makes it also even tougher to point out "mistakes") I just wished that the drums had more space of their own, so they could breath more and become more open.
So take my comments as what they are, comments from an hobbyist.

EDIT:
Quote:


MGA
Harsh and lacking body esp the snare.


Ahh, now I think what I mean with muffled, too much body Razz

Anyway ATOR you're right about the harsh (too much highend right?), I didn't saw the new IMP until yesterday night, when I was about to go to bed. But I wanted to paricipate so to meet the deadline I had to mix it late at night (actually after mightnight even) so I had to monitor really quite, that made my lust for high frequencies even bigger.
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Devin Knutson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2008, 01:18:19 pm »

ATOR wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 04:30

DevinK
Cool intro. Drum ambience is very obvious and panned unnatural. The clean repeated guitar 'sample' doesn't work esp the sound of it, too poky. You lost me because the mix choices you made don't make it sound as if I have a real band in front of me.



Hmm...  interesting.  I added some room to the kick.  Listening again, I see that it does drift to one side a bit.  Ah well, it is what it is.  Smile


MGAudio wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 04:43

DevinK
Where did you get that organ from in the intro?
The percussivness of the lick guitar is nice but at the edge of being too much
Overall nice mix, but where did you get the those organ sounds from?



No organ.  It's the one guitar note that I chopped out of the riffs part for the intro, sent out through a digitech GSP-2101 guitar processor on the "String Swell" preset.

I think you're right...  the color guitar sound is a bit much.  That's one of the things that I was going to change if I had the time.  Which I didn't.  Oh well.

Thanks!
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MGA

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2008, 01:30:06 pm »

Devin Knutson wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 12:18


No organ.  It's the one guitar note that I chopped out of the riffs part for the intro, sent out through a digitech GSP-2101 guitar processor on the "String Swell" preset.




Nice, sounded awesome btw.
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loudsongsinc

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2008, 01:36:32 pm »

ATOR wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 06:30


Loudsongsinc
Kick &Snare drums in intro sound roomless. Don't like the eq on the kick. Chorus guitars lack body. Balance is good.





Thanks for the comments.

I had some verb on the drums throughout, it was just backed off a little at the beginning cause I thought it was too much.

I started with more of a rock kick and changed it toward the classic rock/country sound. . . judgement call?  What fits better?

I do wish the chorus guitars were "bigger."  I had a tapey sounding multitap delay set up for the vox that I should have tried on the guitars.  That would have helped the thickness.  I also notched out some mid to give the vox room to breathe.  

Should I have left the mid in (2.5-3k)?  Left in more low mid (200-400Hz)?

Scott
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rankus

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2008, 01:43:51 pm »

ATOR wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 04:30


Rankus
Very dry. Could use some reverb to glue it all together. Apart from that I like this one.



Thanks for taking the time to comment Pieter. I appreciate that.

For some reason I am really not digging reverb these days.  It reminds me too much of the 60's  70's  80's ... And lately I'm doing lots of pop/punk/indie/emo stuff that calls for more in your face mixing... I'm really digging the dry, what can I say!  To me the mixes with more reverb than mine sound "old fashioned"  

 
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Patrik T

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2008, 02:03:01 pm »

Maxim:
Pina Colada-intro, nice. Overall good tone. No particular lift in the chorus.
The guitar lick could go away here and there, it's offsetting things.
Bass might be too sloppy still.

Antman:
Good overall tone. OK chorus lift. The lick is not together with the rest.
The sound of the gutar solo over the vox in the end kind of indicates how
much a wanted arrangement can become an overfilled mix.

Carefulcollapse:
Good drive. Thank you for dry vocals. Good chorus lift. Bass, kick and snare
blends nicely. The guitars are quite small in contast to that blend but you
surely left room on the sides for them.


Chrisilett:
The bass is sloppily undefined in the intro. Kick and bass might have too much
low when they contain lot of other useful frequencies. Too much of the undermic
from the snare for my tastes. The vox are kind of floating in their reverb all
over the rest and the contrast makes the instruments feel pretty narrowed.
Interesting silent part, whispering part. Dunno about the reverbed kick there.

DevinK:
It feels like you've spent more time on tricks and adds than listening to how
the tracked instruments actually sound. The singer is sometimes so disattached from
the guitars that it actually sound like he's singing in a karaoke bar to background
music. I think this band can live without synthesizer pads...

Grant Richard:
Everything is quite nicely gathered. The sound of the snare makes the chorus sounds
trashier than it have to, it affects the guitars tone. Actually it sounds like the
kick and the snare belongs to one kit and the OH's to a completely other kit.

Huds:
Whatever effect there is on the acoustic guitar, it doesn't make it sound very good.
Too much short delays. The drum kit sits together good. The guitars doesn't blossom
much in the choruses. They feel so small.

MGA:
The mix pumps...The snare sound is very cardboard. Less of the undermic pls. Things
sound like being played from the myspace player.

MGT:
Lovely tone on the vox. Thank you for a kick that sounds like a kick. Transients are
oh so important for the drive. The lift in the chorus works, but the guitars are
pretty small. At the solo part starting 02:35 the guitars are slightly unbearable.
Again it shows what too much can cause; the final chorus sounds like splinters of
something demolished. Everyhing wants to be there but there ain't room for anyhting
sounding really good. Or cool.

Podgorny:
I can't understand why so many go so much for sounds that are under the snare when
most normal scenarios where one listen to drums is when one have the ears situated
over the kit or in front/back of it. So maybe a little less of the "under"-thing.
Apart from that things are good. Bass is too boomy at spots. The chors lift works
pretty well.

ATOR:
I think the bass is still too sloppy. It's pretty much the only disturbing thing in
the first part. Ok lift at the chorus.

Elduderino:
Good gathering of things but the general sound is somewhat boringly dry cardboardish.
Near-good lift at the chorus. More beef.

Osumosan:
Kick, bass and vox goes well together. But where are the guitars in the big picture?
They sound like 10 watt amps...

Slash5969:
Internal levels of things are so disconnected from each other. Too much compression.

Spoon:
The under-mic again...must be something personal. More guitars at the choruses.

Sstillwell:
The guitars could and probably should be more present. No specific lift-off. The reverb
on the vox does not fit the rest. Like two separated things. Listen.

Teleric:
Everything is pretty well gathred here. Thanks for no "audible" effects. More guitar beef
would be nice in the choruses.

YZ:
Bass is too sloppy. The playing is far from the best but can be fixed somewhat. Tone of
guitars and vox are not anywhere similar. The difference makes things sound more like a
mix than a song...

Jason Thompson:
Too heavy lows in the kick. The overall tone is gathered good but vox might be slightly
off regarding toghetherness with the rest (tone, not the obvious shift in time).

JNickel:
Ok gathereness. Listen to the relationship between the centred electric guitars and the
snare. If they sound like they can fit inside of the snare maybe something should be done.
Things are slightly heavy on the bottom.

Rankus:
Sounds like parts in progress of being mixed. I get absolutely no big picture of the song
here. The guitar lick at...01:40 somewhere...is so off with the rest. There is no particular drive anywhere. Scare me!


Thanks for being a part of this!
Patrik
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jdier

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2008, 02:48:01 pm »

Anyone know if J is going to post a mix?  
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spoon

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2008, 03:35:33 pm »

Hey all,
thanks to those who took the time to review the submissions.

To those who didnt, may your arms swell up and fall off...

Some notes:
I did not like the main rythmn guitars tone or distorion characteristics.
I did not like the bass players consistency.

So those attributes will pretty much be reflected in my reviews to some degree.

I randomized them and reviewed blind including my own which, (suprise) I liked alot...but I had some corrections to myself too.

Kind regards,
David

Antman - Good overall mix.  A touch muddy (though some willl call this warmth) for me and the chorus BG vocals are a tad low at times.

ATOR - Good Mix.  Nice drums, snare in particular. Nice intimate verse vocals. Nice ending.

Chris Ilett- Fun intro.  The fun intro make the chorus sound small when the rest of the intruments arrive.  It sets up the anticipation for fortissimo, but does not deliver.  Nice vocal forward mix but the guitars are non-existant.  Fun middle break down, but does it work with this style?  Same with the outro.

DBallenger - Nice warm bass, but the drums are in the next room. Interesting vocal placement.  Vocals a touch low, most notably during the chorus.

DevinK - Nice keyboard touch in the intro (I refer to the pad. Are we able to add parts?).  I did the drum treatment.  Gives it a cool live feel.  The end-of-chorus reverb is fun (needs to tail off less abruptly).  Good overall mix.  (Love that synth pad...nice delicate touch.)  Fun outro.

El Duderino - Tight, crisp drums (that dissappear abit when the other instruments come in).  Oh, mean guitar in the first verse.  Guitar forward, bass back mix with the vocals just abit behind those guitars. Nice ending.

Grant Richard - Aggressive snare treatment...nice. Sample or effect?  Nice vocals. Nice mix overall.

Greg Thompson - Nice snare.  Intimate verse vocals. Another mean verse guitar.  First chorus vocals come in small.  Good instrumental balance.  Vocal delay might, (might) make the choruses a tiny bit too busy.

Huds - Acoustic abit overpowering a good mix on the intro.  Its departure is a bit abrupt.  Good mix/balance overall (aside from the intro acoustic) with the drums just a tad low/small for my taste. Nice outro reverb.

Jason Thompson - The drums are nice and tight.  The verse vocals are intimate but abit low. The chorus vocals are a bit restrained.  The vocal positioning (as noted) is interesting.  DBallenger did something similar.  Fun when you have been listening to the same song 20 times.  The mix has an overall slighty lo-fi quality to it.Reminds me of the good old cassette days.

Jdier - I like the overall mix but it sounds slightly smashed and pumps a bit. The verse vocals are abit low.

JNickel - The mix has a good balance but also has a slight boxy quality to the drums and guitars.  Vocals could come up abit on the verse and pre-chorus.

LoudSongSinc - Big drums, very nice.  The vocals seem to lean to the left channel...by design?  Good intrument balance (I would prefer a bit more chorus guitars).  Nice tight ending.

Maxim - Dig the intro.  Good mix balance.  Nice energy at the choruses. I could use more lead volume or maybe less FX on that middle lead.  But the FX on the "lead" guitar during the last verse was cool.  I would prefer it off when the last chorus comes in and maybe more volume too.  Interesting minimalist outro.

M diFazio - The vocals have a slightly tiled-bathroom sound to them.  The entire mix has this distance to it that seems to stem from strange global EQ settings.  It makes the chorus vocals sound seperate from the intruments.

MGA - Intro acoustic abit loud, its departure is abrupt.  Smallish verse vocals, probably just a volume thing. Yeah the snare has abit to much snap.  Chorus vocals need abit more volume too.  Drums have a bit too much high end energy to them that is most telling during the chorus (overhead processing).

MGT - Pumping drums, abit harsh. It prevents the vocals from being in front (which may be by design). I like were you were going with the chorus rythmn guitars.  I feel the right channel guitar is abit to thin and bitting for my tastes (Like they used the guitar setup from Crass).  Left channel sounds nice and cruchy.  Generally the balance sounds good if EQed abit harshly.

MSE - Good mix.  Vocals are a little restrained.  I like the intention of the dropouts.

Osumosan - Beautiful snare treatment.  Chorus vocals are smaller than verse vocals. Chorus guitars are a abit low for my tastes. Maybe a tad much bass guitar.  It swallows the middle lead guitar.  I like the fade out.

Patrik T - Acoustic guitar is too big as it muddies the first verse a bit.  I would prefer more meat to the kick, but the drums sound great. The chorus guitars swamp everything when they come in.  Nice "Do You" section. Last verse vocals are too low.  Yeah those guitars are too loud, they swamp even the bass for the last third of the song.

Podgorny - No kick drum and heavy bass causes some cloudy-ness through out the song.  It steps on the verse vocals a bit.  Nice verse guitar treatment (reverb).  Chorus vocals are smaller than the verse.

Rankus - Nice balance.  Nice chorus.  Maybe, just maybe more verse vocal...especialy when the verse noodle guitar comes in (which could be a touch lover; same with the last verse).  Yeah, I like the overall mix quality.

slash5956 - Holy drums batman!  Cool, but the pumping is distracting.  The Bass, at that volume muddies things up a bit.  The chorus guitars in order to compensate are too loud and swamp everything. Nice simple vocal treatment gets swamped thru most of the song.

spoon - Nice clean intro.  Crisp balance and open mix.  Nice natural snare.  The choras vocals have to compete with the chorus guitars at times.  A bit too much third verse lead.

sstillwell - Holy kick batman!  I like the sound but maybe not for this particular song.  Nice vocals.  Chorus guitars are too low and dont give it the energy they have available.  A goodly amount of low end here.

Teleric -  Where did the kick go?  Haha, I think it is fine.  Just tough to compare after sstillwell's mix.  I will check back on this.  No, the drums are abit low.  Nice last verse breakdown.

YZ - Nice verse vocals.  Kick is abit small.  Nice balance in general.  Like the long fade out.

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ATOR

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2008, 03:41:04 pm »

@MGaudio
I agree about my drums being muffled esp compared to the guitars. In my book there's no such thing as drums hitting too hard  Very Happy
And yeah, Fletcher and Munson will bite you in the ass if you monitor too low.

J-Texas

My school of thought is if you make it sound perfect and badass in your room... unless it's perfect... it will be a nightmare for the ME.

Of course you try to make your mix as perfect and badass as possible in the room you work. We have mastering to make up for our room anomalies. If it doesn't sound perfect and badass in our room it's higly unlikely mastering can make it sound perfect and badass outside of it.


loudsongsinc

I do wish the chorus guitars were "bigger." I had a tapey sounding multitap delay set up for the vox that I should have tried on the guitars. That would have helped the thickness. I also notched out some mid to give the vox room to breathe.

Should I have left the mid in (2.5-3k)? Left in more low mid (200-400Hz)?

I think that just turning them up would do the trick.

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J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2008, 04:15:31 pm »

ATOR wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 14:41


J-Texas

My school of thought is if you make it sound perfect and badass in your room... unless it's perfect... it will be a nightmare for the ME.


Of course you try to make your mix as perfect and badass as possible in the room you work. We have mastering to make up for our room anomalies. If it doesn't sound perfect and badass in our room it's higly unlikely mastering can make it sound perfect and badass outside of it.



FUCKING BACK BUTTON!!!!!!!  Twisted Evil

Dude. I set myself up for that response. I'm not explaining it correctly, I guess. I just make a mix that I'm comfortable with and see if it sounds good in a few different places. I think that the second set of ears for the tweaking of EQ by an ME is the logical next step. I don't even pretend to hear what you people hear man. In this case, I got in the truck with it and new two things: I immediately heard the things you guys are talking about and I knew I didn't have time to change it.

spoon wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 12:05

BTW, did you get new monitors, or did you mix this in a different space than you normally use?



Yes and yes. I usually mix on the NS10M's in my converted bedroom, partially treated, good enough for editing radio shows control room thingie.

I figure a few more mixes (of stuff I didn't record) in the newly finished studio will help me get used to it.

I'm using some ProAc studio 100 monitors down there. There is definitely a "masking" of the high end response on those speakers with the grills on (duh). I didn't like it, but maybe it's necessary. I've only mixed on NS10's my whole life, so going to a set of monitors like that is a totally different animal.

Patrik T wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 13:03


Jason Thompson:
Too heavy lows in the kick. The overall tone is gathered good but vox might be slightly
off regarding toghetherness with the rest (tone, not the obvious shift in time).



Absolutely, Patrik. Very fair and I agree. Thank you.

spoon wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 14:35


Jason Thompson - The drums are nice and tight.  The verse vocals are intimate but abit low. The chorus vocals are a bit restrained.  The vocal positioning (as noted) is interesting.  DBallenger did something similar.  Fun when you have been listening to the same song 20 times.  The mix has an overall slighty lo-fi quality to it.Reminds me of the good old cassette days.



Ouch! How many times recorded over cassette? Did you have to put scotch tape over the "safe" tabs?

I did some automation on the vox before it hit the compressor, that's why the chorus parts aren't really there. I could have spent a lot longer on the bass and vox. Thanks man.




My wife is going out of town, so I should have time this weekend to do the crits guys.

DISCLAIMER: I usually go in order of the submission thread, so the guys at the end... it's just the wine. Sorry in advance!  Laughing
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Jason Thompson
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spoon

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2008, 04:20:55 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 15:15



spoon wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 12:05

BTW, did you get new monitors, or did you mix this in a different space than you normally use?



Yes and yes. I usually mix on the NS10M's in my converted bedroom, partially treated, good enough for editing radio shows control room thingie.

I figure a few more mixes (of stuff I didn't record) in the newly finished studio will help me get used to it.

I'm using some ProAc studio 100 monitors down there. There is definitely a "masking" of the high end response on those speakers with the grills on (duh). I didn't like it, but maybe it's necessary. I've only mixed on NS10's my whole life, so going to a set of monitors like that is a totally different animal.


spoon wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 14:35


Jason Thompson - The drums are nice and tight.  The verse vocals are intimate but abit low. The chorus vocals are a bit restrained.  The vocal positioning (as noted) is interesting.  DBallenger did something similar.  Fun when you have been listening to the same song 20 times.  The mix has an overall slighty lo-fi quality to it.Reminds me of the good old cassette days.



Ouch! How many times recorded over cassette? Did you have to put scotch tape over the "safe" tabs?

I did some automation on the vox before it hit the compressor, that's why the chorus parts aren't really there. I could have spent a lot longer on the bass and vox. Thanks man.




I think the new setup is working out for you.  I dont mean lo-if in a bad way at all.

I think you are right, a few more mixes of others stuff will give you a better feel of the new monitors.

BTW, a bazillion songs were done on those monitors so you are in good hands.


Cheers,
David
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J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2008, 04:27:00 pm »

Thank you, David. But aren't you talking about the REAL NS10's? You know... the ones with the toilet paper taped over the tweeters?  Surprised
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Jason Thompson
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YZ

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My opinions, post 1 of 4
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2008, 05:05:46 pm »

Ok guys, I managed to get some time to review the submissions, so here I go, in no particular order:


Chrislett - it seems you found the same difficulties in the lead vox as I did, and ended up with a similar treatment but with a little more space in it; gtrs a tad low to my idea of what it should be; did not like the 'special', specially the reverbed BD but hey, it is a matter of taste...  it's up to the client to decide.  ending sounds way too effect-y and disconnected from the overall song vibe. I really did like the mix at the beginning except for the springness (from the fx?) of the ac gtr.
The way you voiced and placed the vamp and chorus gtrs make it all sounds smaller than it could be, specially with the powerful drums you achieved.

Maxim - hehe...  do-ya right in the start...  cool...  I'm liking very much the vocal treatment, does not have the spittiness I have in mine. The drums does not seem to have been too manipulated from the originals, this is not a bad thing per se. But sincerely, in my  humble opinion the mix is not together, I see quite a few interesting ideas but they are not 'gelling' into a cohesive whole.

Antman - interesting. raw. vox too dry for my taste. too much gtrs.  all tracks seem very little changed from the originals (again, this is not bad in itself).
It is becoming obvious to me that my monitoring situation is really unfavorable.

carefulcollapse - drums! big Smile for the boldness!  and like how you worked the bass gtr.  the other gtrs are too piercing, apparently forcing you to squish the vox too much, making this mix sound strained.  too heavy hand in the dynamics processing overall.

DevinK - oh the intro...  very cool...  too 'spacey' drums, too tiny vamp grs, chorus gtrs seem disconnected from the whole, vocals start quite OK to me but later on became a tad dull.  not cool to repeat the intro effect so much.

Telesound - trashy drums, powerful kick; I like it but not for this particular song; bass is more felt than heard, ok this matches the aesthetics of the drum kit. vox a bit midrangy, which makes it work well in the context; vamp gtrs too loud.

Interim note: I never thought that criticizing other people's work would be such a difficult task!

Huds - I like the drums.  intro gtr sound good at the intro but could have been tamed down a bit after that. vox has level but lacks presence, has a pesky upper midrange peakiness that detracts from the result. also a tad dry for my taste, the same goes for the BVs. with a better vocal treatment the mix would come together a lot better...  a little less vamp gtrs, better vox and this mix would go up several notches IMHO.


We have 28 submissions not counting mine, so I will post my comments in 4 blocks of 7 mixes to avoid posting an opinion based on tired ears.
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regards,

YZ

Huds

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2008, 05:30:47 pm »

* Long-winded post warning!! *

My observations on the various mixes. You'll notice I captured avg rms for each submission too. For those patient enough to wade through my ramblings, there's a general question (and comment on the avg rms deal) to everyone at the end...

Listening on my K240 cans, so I won't comment much on low-end unless there's something that sticks out in the ol' headphones.

Finally, before getting into the comments, these are my opinions only.  I could be (and some cases probably am) completely off mark, but hey - this is how we all get better, right?

Chrisilett
Reverb seems too predominant at beginning. BGV sitting too far up front (maybe diff eq?). Don't like the kick treatment after the do-ya break. Snare seems too hot. Treatment on the ending could be a genre violation
Avg RMS: -19.70/-19.28

Maxim
Diversion from orig performance cool.  LV leveling audible in spots.  BGV's draw attention, I personally eq BGV's different so they stay background (and in many cases mask pitch issues) Don't like the underwater guitar fill during last verse - borderline genre violation
Avg RMS: -16.09/-15.70

Antman
Guitars seem too hot. Are you primarily a guitarist? I am, and I find it shows in a lot of the stuff I do.  I usually get a mix to where I like it and then drop the guitars down a bit. Snare reverb catches my attention - maybe should be shorter to avoid the 80's thing?
Avg RMS: -16.01/-15.66

carefulcollapse
I like the breathy sound on the lead vocal. Overall mix sounds really "processed"? Seems a bit harsh in the 3k-4k range.  Not a fan of the abrupt ending in this case.
Avg RMS: -13.18/-13.10

DevinK
In first few seconds I thought I accidentally opened Incubus' Megalomaniac.  Too much flexing of editing/looping/FX chops on this one.  Very well done, but this one gets a genre violation.
Avg RMS: -21.04/-20.77

grantrichard
Kick catches my ear right out of the gate - to me sounds more like something done in a metal tune. Borderline genre violation. Do I hear compressor pumping everything during the chorus?
Avg RMS: -14.51/-14.62

My mix
I shoulda shoulda shoulda split up the lead vocal track to help manage the levels. In retrospect, AG could be backed off and perhaps a nice reverb would've worked better than the duplicated/delayed/panned treatment.  Also could've placed the bass guitar better.  Giving myself a borderline genre violation for throwing the tacky flanger on a piece of the solo, maybe even the doubling/panning too...
Avg RMS: -17.23/-17.31

mdifazio
Vocal seems too hot and the effect is too much - almost a combing thing. Guitar treatment gets this one close to a genre violation - is that flanging/phasing?
Avg RMS: -20.33/-20.88

MGA
Vocals sound a little thin.  Is there a comp on that drum buss? Almost sounds drum machine-ish. Upfront guitars - another guitarist?  Maybe back off the reverb a bit on the first and last set of do-ya's
Avg RMS: -14.65/-14.72

MGT
Drums could be more "open" - seem overly compressed/cymbals too dominant. Guitars seem too harsh to me.
Avg RMS: -14.55/-14.62

MSE
Kick sounds tubby, maybe a touch more bottom snare too... I like dropping the drums/bass out in spots, but in some places sounds uneven coming back in.
Avg RMS: -16.66/-16.11

patrikt
Too much guitar (another guitar player?) in the heavier parts.  Hey... where'd the solo go?
Avg RMS: -11.77/-12.68  Loudness war violation Smile

podgorny
I hear a low/low-mid build-up, but that may be due to how squashed this one seems. Loudness war violation - I'd really like to hear this one without the 2 buss squash
Avg RMS: -10.20/-11.31

ATOR
I'm not sold on the snare sound/treatment. I'm also not a big fan of real wide BGV's, but it seems to work in this mix.  Do I hear pumping in the last chorus? Borderline loudness war violation?  Big reverb - maybe too big?
Avg RMS: -12.47/-12.49

DBallenger
Really "round" bass.  OK, who moved the vocals.  Hey - where'd that guitar go? oh there it is. Problems importing this one?
Avg RMS: -16.41/-17.18

ElDuderino
A fellow NJ mixer Smile Lots of guitar - another guitarist? maybe even back the snare off a bit. I like ending with the do-ya's - this one's dry, there was another that had a heavy 'verb. I think I'd like something in between...
RMS: -12.78/12.99

Osumosan
Didn't someone else mention string noise on the bass? Definitely hear that... low end doesn't sound "right" - not good/bad/too much too little, just doesn't seem right - almost like a loudness curve of some sort. I'm not a fan of the buzzy guitar treatment at the beginning.
Avg RMS: -15.82/-15.72

slash5969
Over-compressed drums.  sounds like the guitars are clipping. Heavy chorus on lead vocal could be a genre violation.
Avg RMS: -15.47/-15.71

spoon
Snare could be a bit tighter - perhaps back off the bottom mic a bit. Kick feels muffled. Reverb on the lead vocal seems a bit big.
Avg RMS: -14.52/-13.54

sstillwell
Kick seems tubby, snare sounds a bit overcompressed - needs more attack.  Lots of growl on the bass, not sure if that works here. Reverb seems too heavy on the lead vox. BGV's sound too present to me.  Is that a heavy chorus effect on the solo?
Avg RMS: -15.21/-14.94

Teleric
seems like too much cymbal.  Kicks sounds "boxy" on my cans...
Avg RMS: -18.44/-18.79

YZ
I like the intro without drums, but might like it even more without the bass.  Speaking of bass, it does seem a bit "floppy", which I think someone else mentioned.
Avg RMS: -16.30/-16.30

JasonThompson
OK, we all know about the vox - putting that aside... Agree with another who said too much low-lows on the kick, may work in with another genre but not here IMHO (not enough for a genre violation). I think the LV could be more present (seems to get lost up to / in to the last chorus) in some places, and the BGV less present in places too.
Avg RMS: -17.86/-16.15

Loudsongsinc
Other than the kick, pretty good.  Seems like the bass guitar fades back in the first chorus - was that intentional?
RMS: -16.03/-16.24

GT
Add me to the list of those not into the re-amped guitar.  Vocals seem all over. I like the delay that comes in on the vox, but to me seems too up-front... maybe move it back a little bit.
RMS: -14.29/-14.26

jdier
Cymbals too present for my taste... I guess this is the final that was duplicated? I do like the mix, but don't like the loudness wars violation Smile
Avg RMS: -11.38/-11.29

JNickel
I'm on board with the intro/drums boxiness.  Bass seems to take over the chorus. Where's that nice little clean solo guitar between verses? It seems like this starts out with everything except overheads panned center and then it spreads out?
RMS: -12.78/-13.03

Rankus
Kick has more of a hard rock / metal sound for me - minor genre violaton Smile  Good level balance, but the hard-panned BGV's distract my easily distracted mind.
RMS: -19.17/-20.12

General performace issues:
If I was tracking this band, there's some stuff I would ask for a "do-over" on... the bass, some of the background vocals have pitch issues etc.  I would probably suggest the band double the BGV parts so crazies like me don't try to fake it with duplicated tracks and delay on the mix.

OK... what's this "genre violation" thing this Huds knucklehead is talking about...
After seeing the tags on jdier's mp3 and doing a little google, I came up with this for the band:
----
The newest release from R. Mutt is a bit of a departure from the funk- and metal-flavored recordings of the 90's. For Heptane the band returns to it's Rock and Roll roots pulling influences from artists the band covered in the late 80's like the Dead, The Band, Rolling Stones. Pop influences like Cheap Trick and the Kinks can be heard as well.

What most will hear on the first listen is a gritty American Rock and Roll sound that could fit as well in classic rock sections as in alt.country bins.
----
If you saw this description BEFORE you started mixing, would you have changed what you did?  I certainly would.  I may have contradicted myself in the reverb department somewhere, since it was a staple of 80's, but these days things tend to be a bit drier so a more current sound would fit. Perhaps this calls for both genre violations AND FX violations?

Maybe for future IMP's we could get "the band/artist is looking for a [insert known artist / genre here] sound"????

Loudness Wars Violations:
Hey... I'm guilty here too... we all seem to want our mixes to be powerful sounding, but for the sake of these mixing exercises can we all agree on no "finalizing" Smile  It's a mixing thing, not a mastering thing, right?

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Huds

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2008, 05:37:17 pm »

Before anyone completely freaks out... I did NOT monitor on the K240's only - listened on Tannoy's and Mackie's too...
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