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Author Topic: imp19 discussion  (Read 16535 times)

j.hall

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imp19 discussion
« on: July 10, 2008, 09:51:41 am »

chat it up.
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Huds

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2008, 01:26:47 pm »

OK... I'll start things off here.  I found that I struggled with the lead vox on this one.  Started out playing with compression, but found that trying to wrangle things in that way alone resulted in too many "thpitty" artifacts.  Cut back on the comp quite a bit, and tried to do more automation, but it was just taking too much time to get things the way I wanted.  Ended up going with 5:1 fast attack and release, and tried to keep GR in the 6-8 range followed by the automation

Huds
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rankus

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2008, 01:37:45 pm »

Agreed.  The vocals and the bass were most challenging for me as well.  I ended up re-amping the bass to add some fizz and tone adjustment.  Due to shortage of time (5 hrs) I did the best compression I could on the vox and adjusted gain handles on a few clips... Wish I could have done an automated mix on this one...

Really well arranged and played song I must say.  A real pleasure to mix!

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Huds

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2008, 01:43:17 pm »

Forgot to add... that 6-8db GR is on the hot parts.... Wink
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osumosan

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 01:54:43 pm »

Had to listen to what was up up to now. Things getting crazy around here. I wish I could have touched up with some automation as well:

ATOR
I Wish my electric guitars sounded like that! Your A&R guy is going to ride you about the lead vox. BG vox are even more buried. Good ending.

Antman
Your mix is static dynamically. The sounds are a bit raw and I think this song needs polish. I can feel the kick transients, but my ear is missing them.

Chris Ilett
Good choice on the intro although I would have brought over the hi hat snap to introduce the drums (that's just me). Balances are strange among the guitars. Missing the low/low mids. The space you made with verb is empty sounding. The third verse treatment is just to off-beat for me and the verb there, too is a bit retro. I just don't understand some of the choices and don't think they gel together.

Jason Thompson
Whoa! Fix that vox! Did you accidentally nudge the vox stem or sumpthin' You kept the darkness of the tracks well and made it work.

Careful Collapse
A little hot between 3k and 5k. Listening to this, I kind of wish I had dropped the bottom snare track, too. Good guitars, too, except for the overall upper mids. Good bottom, although you could have emphasized even lower.

sstillwell
I would roll off some top of the verb and work on the sibilance some. The drum treatment makes it too machine-like for my taste. Maybe overcompressed on that buss.

Huds
Need more power in the vox. The acoustic guitar room sound disappears when the guitar drops out. I'd like to hear it continue somewhere in the general mix. Maybe a touch in the vox? It's pretty dry over all other than when that kicks in. The low needs some attention.

Podgomy
Ah, the intimate mix. Well done blend of dry and wet. The low end is maybe a little out of control (I don't have the best monitoring to say for sure), but the sibilances are hot too.

YZ
Where's the beef i.e.: lowend? The tracks are left a little raw. The drums need to drive the track more.



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Huds

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 02:12:47 pm »

Osumosan - thanks for the feedback.  Just curious - do you monitor with a sub? When I listen to your mix with my sub in sounds like there's way too much "thump"... of course it could be my environment - I am in a small room that could use a bit more treatment... Will be very interested to hear what some of the guys that have big/tuned CR's hear too...
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YZ

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 02:15:30 pm »

Ok...

I'm listening to a few of the submissions while I write this.

Teleric, jdier: I had problems downloading your files.

Well, about my mix:

As I heard the raw files, I decided to go 'the 1980s way', which in my case was the time I did some Indie stuff in a small studio with a Sound Techniques 18-input desk (heavily modded: 4 freq choices in the mid EQ!), one Ursa Major Space Station reverb/fx, two LA3-As, two LA4s, a MXR flanger and a plate.

Recording duties were the responsibility of 'Princess' (the MM1100 16-track with the vacuum-tube locator) and a few AG440s 1/4" with souped-up ferrite heads.

Not being a DAW guy (my last 15 years or so in recording were spent on Jazz and MPB direct to 2-track or pure analog MT) this was going to be kind of a new thing to me, working at home with 'old unreliable' (my Northwood PC that has a tendency to gush unexpectedly).

So I fired up my 3-year old DAW software and my Sonitus:FX plugs, got my headphones on and went nuts.

There are a couple of very lame edits on my version, and I hope the folks here won't laugh too hard at my feeble attempt to do a half-decent mix.

I had a lot of fun and if time allows I intend to be a frequent participant on future IMPs.
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regards,

YZ

ATOR

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 02:24:05 pm »

The lead vox gave me a hard time too. I couldn't get it to glue with the rest. If I made it big or loud it came loose from the mix. I found it hard to pinpoint why let alone fix it. I agree with Osumosan that it's volume is too low.

Most of the excitement of this track was in the drums and guitars so I put them in the front seats.

I'm painting my studio walls so I've removed my acoustic absorbers. Mixing in a untreated concrete wall room is a nightmare, there's no way to tell where the low(mid) end is. I had forgotten how much difference room treatment makes.
Now I'm really looking forward to having new absorbers and basstraps in a month or so.

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YZ

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 02:41:50 pm »

Osumosan,

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll take some time to listen to everybody´s mixes later today to post better balanced comments, in the meantime I have to agree with most of Osumasan's comments, including the ones about my own mix.

Uh...  I guess I'll end up spending more time listening to other's mixes than I did to mix mine...  Wink

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regards,

YZ

Chris Ilett

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2008, 02:42:58 pm »

Really enjoyed this one. Great song.

ATOR - weird acoustic in the beginning - not a fan. The first bridge to the chorus, the guitar in the left channel comes in pretty loud. Great snare sound though, and everything else seems well balanced. Really powerful chorus. Very stereo!! Something seems to go momentarily wrong on the 'Do Yas' after the solo, but mends itself pretty quickly again.
Love the end.

Antman - wet mix with vocals dry as a bone. Another very stereo mix, and guitars overpower things a bit sometimes, like they're climbing on top of each other to get heard instead of supporting the song. That'll be the headphones no doubt. Think most things actually sound really good though. They just don't seem to tie in to make the song.

Me - Decided to 'mix it up' a bit. 80's Kick drum reverb, long intro and rotary effects on the outro. If this were a paid gig, I'd do that as a seperate version to see if the band liked any ideas. Worth a chance in my opinion, so I thought why not. Basic mix was ok

Jason Thompson - think you need to grab all those vocal tracks and shunt them a bit to be in time with the song.

Careful collapse - good strong acoustic and drums. Nice vocal sound - you brought out some of the slightly hoarse tones in the singers softer singing voice. Multiband compressor..?  Did you edit out a chorus? Not a fan of the doo ya's wide panned, and whatever else you did to them sounded a bit weedy.

SStillwell - Whats going on with that acoustic? Drums sound really over compressed. Everything sounds really harsh. Nice mix on the harmonies though.

Huds - space age acoustic for you too?  Maybe should have balanced the lead vocal a bit more. Too quiet in the quiet bits, too loud in the loud bits.

Teleric - Drums got lost behind the guitars which were at times lost behind the vocals. Was the kick drum leaning quite heavily to one side?

YZ - Another one who seems to bury everything under the guitars when it gets loud. That lead guitar at the end sounds so out of place.

Osumosan - Did you put any bass on that bass? I like how you get the lead guitar near the beginning to sound like it's been put through a cheap zoom pedal. Really fits the style of the song. Sounds like a wasp. In fact you've got at least one of the guitars sounding waspy all the way through. Nice doo ya's at the end. I like the way you fade the music out a bit, and then the vocals. Not sure how you get that effect.



More later

Devin Knutson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 02:49:33 pm »

I had trouble with the (edit: lead vocal compression) too.  There are a couple spots where it digs in too much on mine, but I didn't have time to get back and fix it.

Also, it took me over an hour to realize that what was really bugging me about the bass was that it was a good 45 cents sharp.  Once I dropped that, it clicked much better for me.

Well done tracks all around.  I had fun, and am looking forward to hearing everyone else's.

EDIT:  I just checked, and I dropped the bass 36 cents, not 45.
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J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 03:22:33 pm »

Guys, that vocal timing thing was an accident. After listening to the other submissions, I realized it.

That being said, I NEVER thought it sounded out of place. In fact, from a producer's POV, I would MUCH rather have heard that timing than what was really there. I moved something over to the right at the first and just took it for granted that that's the way it was supposed to be. I stand by it whole-heartedly from a producer standpoint. It is WAY more interesting that way, if you can get out of the conventional (I've heard it a thousand times my way) mode.

From an mix engineer's prospective... I'm embarrassed. I would expect pissed clients and a quick recall!


All of THAT being said...

I like compression on vocals. Period. Most of my favorite records (yes, even old ones) have heavily compressed vox. I like the sound.

If I had more time, I would have honed in on the de-essing a little more. There was a lot of shit around 9-10k in that vocal. I did a lot of automation before it hit the compressor. Not a very good mic technique from the vocalist IMO.

The second thing... the bass guitar. I don't know how many takes that was, but somebody needed to throw that guy a tuning fork. It sounded nice when I autotuned it... WAY too many artifacts, so I ditched it.

Very cool overhead sound. Although the drummer was killing the cymbals. Other than that it would have been perfect for me. Good tuning, especially on the snare.

I didn't leave my mix dark, so much as flat. Don't get me wrong it IS dark, but when I listened on my iphone, desktop speakers, truck, monitors, etc... it sounded good all around. If you adjust the treble and bass on the stereo it doesn't go wacky, so I think it could easily be fine tuned.

Like the little "Do Ya" hook, so I brought back for the fade. I didn't like how it just dropped off at the end.

Cool song.  
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Jason Thompson
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Chris Ilett

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 06:15:02 pm »

Jason - it worked at times, for sure. That mistake would have made me call the singer in again to make some adjustments.

The chorus didn't work. I guess if you listen to anything enough, you get used to it.

J-Texas

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 06:21:44 pm »

That's funny man. The chorus (that way) has been going through my head all day.

You are so right about getting used to it, though.

For me, it sounds VERY strange to hear the rest of the mixes' vox that way!
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Jason Thompson
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Greg Thompson

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Re: imp19 discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2008, 07:13:19 pm »

Not that my mix is the be all end all, or even all that great, but I didn't feel like I ran into problems with the lead vocal. Why?  Because I immediately sliced up the lead voc track and made a verse track and a pre chorus line track and a chorus track. Each one has its own unique eq/comp/fx treatment.
No way (for me) that 1 eq or 1 comp was going to work on a vocal that dynamic in volume and tone.

-Greg
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