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Author Topic: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked  (Read 8323 times)

PRobb

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2008, 05:41:23 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 14:29



How would you feel if Iran DID close down the Strait of Hormuz and you couldn't get to work because you're paying $20 a gallon for gas?  



Good question. If we went the military route, that would be their response. And it wouldn't be at all difficult for them to accomplish.  
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2008, 06:08:01 pm »

We shouldn't confuse the Iranian government with the Iranian people, just as they shouldn't confuse us with our government.

There are quite a few anti-government (theirs) Iranians.  They wish we would shut up so they can carry on their movement.  By us heating things us for their government, the government is cracking down on them.

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jimlongo

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2008, 06:10:58 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 18:08


There are quite a few anti-government (theirs) Iranians.  They wish we would shut up so they can carry on their movement.  By us heating things us for their government, the government is cracking down on them.


Exactly.  We play right into their hands.  Demonizing them just strengthens their position,  One needn't look any further than Cuba to see how it plays out.
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J-Texas

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2008, 07:19:39 pm »

PRobb wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 16:41

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 14:29



How would you feel if Iran DID close down the Strait of Hormuz and you couldn't get to work because you're paying $20 a gallon for gas?  



Good question. If we went the military route, that would be their response. And it wouldn't be at all difficult for them to accomplish.  


So, are you saying that we should tell them that it's okay to carry on with the ballistic missile testing as long as they promise to never use them on neighboring countries? And that it's okay to enrich the uranium as long as it's used for energy and they will never decide one day to use the technology to attach a nuclear warhead to those missiles? What happens when diplomacy doesn't work anymore? How do you know that there haven't been "talks" for ages? We know what we are allowed to know.

No. It wouldn't be hard for them to shut down the strait. It also wouldn't be that hard for us to open it right back up.
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mgod

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2008, 08:26:55 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 16:19


So, are you saying that we should tell them that it's okay to carry on with the ballistic missile testing as long as they promise to never use them on neighboring countries? And that it's okay to enrich the uranium as long as it's used for energy and they will never decide one day to use the technology to attach a nuclear warhead to those missiles? What happens when diplomacy doesn't work anymore? How do you know that there haven't been "talks" for ages? We know what we are allowed to know.

No. It wouldn't be hard for them to shut down the strait. It also wouldn't be that hard for us to open it right back up.

Last time I looked, Iran was a sovereign nation, considerably older than ours, and not subject to US law or US political manipulation. In a free world whoever wants to build ad test any technology is free to do it. Of course if the world ISN'T free, and we are the group calling the shots (for now, China will be doing it very soon), then its a whole different story. But lets not have any of this leader of the free world and greatest nation on earth crap then. We defend freedom or we don't. Freedom means not imposing our momentary political will on other nations as we have of course done in Iran, time and time again. And lets not bitch when China imposes its will on us.

Its interesting that no one ever talks about international co-operation to use nuclear energy, with international standards available to all. Its all about controlling who has the right to it. The homemakers in Iran have the same right to it as ours do, and the generals in Iran have the same right to test ballistic missiles as we do.

Again, if we're not in favor of freedom, we really just ought to STFU about it.

DS
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mgod

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2008, 08:30:11 pm »

JDNelson wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 14:32

Had we applied a measured military support to keep the Shah in power, perhaps things would be different.  In retrospect, the Pehlavi family were positively enlightened leaders...

Except of course for torture, disappearances and the fact that they were installed by the west after deposing a democratically elected leader. I mean, other than that, sure! Positively beneficent!

DS
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maxim

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2008, 10:01:51 pm »

"vows to hit back if attacked"

the nerve!!!!
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Berolzheimer

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2008, 01:47:35 am »

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Barry Hufker

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2008, 02:10:07 am »

And he's absolutely right.
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PRobb

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2008, 08:06:41 am »

JDNelson wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 17:32

I remember reading an article in National Geographic magazine, about Iran. This would have been just before all hell broke loose there, right about '78 or '79.  The overall picture they painted was a country shaking off the past and quickly entering the 20th century, thanks to progressive leadership by the Pahlavi family.  Months later and all that was, as they say, history.

I don't know what article you read, but you were misled. The Shah was a brutal dictator. SAVAK, his Gestapo style secret police, kept the population in check through brute intimidation. Political opponents "disappeared" pretty regularly. Torture was standard procedure. And the Shah was on the throne because the CIA helped him overthrow a democratically elected government that was going to nationalize the oil industry.

The Shah was seen, correctly, as an American puppet. So when the people rose up to overthrow the dictator, America was part of the enemy. Sadly for them, they wound up going from bad to worse. But there's no mystery where the revolutionary fervor, or the anti Americanism, of 1979 came from.


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bblackwood

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2008, 10:29:31 am »

Update: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/10/missile.iran/index .html

Great, now we're being 'threatened' and feel the need to 'defend ourselves'.
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Fibes

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2008, 10:32:04 am »

The propaganda machine is in full effect.

In that case it's time to dust off the mickey mouse mirror i have from 74 that reads "Fuck Iran!"

Does that mean we are no longer at war with Eurasia?

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PRobb

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2008, 10:36:08 am »

Fibes wrote on Thu, 10 July 2008 10:32

The propaganda machine is in full effect.

In that case it's time to dust off the mickey mouse mirror i have from 74 that reads "Fuck Iran!"

Does that mean we are no longer at war with Eurasia?



We are at war with Oceania. We have always been at war with Oceania.
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JDNelson

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2008, 11:39:20 am »

mgod wrote on Wed, 09 July 2008 17:26

Its interesting that no one ever talks about international co-operation to use nuclear energy, with international standards available to all. DS

There was a briefing of on Undersecretary of State by the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee yesterday, and I caught a bit of it on C-SPAN.  There is a clear protocol in place for any nation to utilize nuclear energy.  It's the reprocessing of the fuel, which has weapons implications, which is proscribed by the international agreements.  All of the committee members of both parties were strongly in agreement with preventing Iran from pursuing this technology, which is not the same thing as trying to prevent them from using nuclear enery for electrical power generation.  The Committe Chairman, Joe Biden (a Democrat the last time I checked) was quite strongly in favor of this position.

JDNelson

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Re: Iran tests missiles, vows to hit back if attacked
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2008, 11:43:25 am »

PRobb wrote on Thu, 10 July 2008 05:06

I don't know what article you read, but you were misled. The Shah was a brutal dictator. SAVAK, his Gestapo style secret police, kept the population in check through brute intimidation. Political opponents "disappeared" pretty regularly. Torture was standard procedure. And the Shah was on the throne because the CIA helped him overthrow a democratically elected government that was going to nationalize the oil industry.

The Shah was seen, correctly, as an American puppet. So when the people rose up to overthrow the dictator, America was part of the enemy. Sadly for them, they wound up going from bad to worse. But there's no mystery where the revolutionary fervor, or the anti Americanism, of 1979 came from.




What I'm suggesting is that you guys are "making the perfect the enemy of the good".  When you consider the brutal, uncompromising nature of his Islamist enemies, what else could the Shah do to maintain order?  Sometimes it's a choice of lesser evils...
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