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Author Topic: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed  (Read 10237 times)

Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 06:41:46 pm »

How does one define "assault rifle"?  Further, do people deserve the "right" to own guns...  Does a criminal deserve the right to own a gun before he becomes a criminal.  Will he give it up after he becomes one... does owning a gun make you a criminal... there are obviously many issues and the subject isn't as cut and dried as many want to make it.  But certain guns and certain ammunition only have one purpose -- killing people.  What should we do about that?

I'm not so much anti-gun as I am "pro-knife".  Guns make it too easy to kill in the heat of the moment.  If you want to kill someone, come up to them close, look them in the eye with murderous rage and shove cold metal into them.  Get blood on your hands and feel how warm it is as it gushes out.  Watch the pained look on the other person's face as he slowly dies.  Hear him talk to you as he falls to the ground.  Feel his hot breath as he exhales for the last time.  Now you've accomplished something.

If you're going to kill someone be a participant and get the full effect.

Now some people will say only the stupid bring a knife to a gun fight.  I say only stupid people need a knife or a gun to fight others off.

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PRobb

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 06:48:21 pm »

I'm waiting for the chorus of conservatives condemning those unelected activist judges for overturning a democratically enacted law.




Where's the emoticon for crickets and tumbleweed?
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 06:53:47 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:17

 I don't recall Jesus demanding greater access to weapons.

Luke 22:36
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Brad Blackwood
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bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2008, 06:55:39 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:26

In a civilized society there is a police department to deal with Sammy, it's not your job or mine.  

Sure, but when someone is breaking into your home, would you prefer having only a phone or a phone and a weapon in order to protect yourself?

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only a few minutes away!
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Brad Blackwood
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bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2008, 06:57:04 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:41

 I say only stupid people need a knife or a gun to fight others off.

If someone ever breaks into your home intending to cause your or yours harm, be sure to remember that...
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Brad Blackwood
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Jay Kadis

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2008, 07:04:33 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 15:55

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:26

In a civilized society there is a police department to deal with Sammy, it's not your job or mine.  

Sure, but when someone is breaking into your home, would you prefer having only a phone or a phone and a weapon in order to protect yourself?

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only a few minutes away!
I was burglarized several times.  The last time I caught them in the act and called the police.  They were unarmed and not very bright.  They were apprehended.  No weapons involved.    If I had had a weapon handy I very well might have used it.  Had I used a weapon I'd probably still be in court and that happened in 1991.

I also played rock in dive bars for 40 years and never needed a weapon even in the Tenderloin at 3 AM with all that expensive gear.  The only fights I encountered were knife fights.  Things have gone completely out of control now.  Guns are everywhere.

Bill_Urick

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 07:06:17 pm »

PRobb wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 18:48

I'm waiting for the chorus of conservatives condemning those unelected activist judges for overturning a democratically enacted law.



Uh, that effectively reversed a constitutional amendment?
So, if a state dominated by Republicans produced a majority vote to outlaw media criticism of the Bush administration, you wouldn't be in favor of the courts overturning that?
Unbridled majority rule is mob rule, that's why we're a republic.

I love intellectual consistency.
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2008, 07:10:54 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 18:04

I was burglarized several times.  The last time I caught them in the act and called the police.  They were unarmed and not very bright.  They were apprehended.  No weapons involved.

Imagine what could have been were they armed...
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Brad Blackwood
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Jessica A. Engle

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2008, 07:41:35 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:55

Jay Kadis wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:26

In a civilized society there is a police department to deal with Sammy, it's not your job or mine.  

Sure, but when someone is breaking into your home, would you prefer having only a phone or a phone and a weapon in order to protect yourself?

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only a few minutes away!



I believe it is an incorrect assumption that you "must" have a weapon.

I don't have one, and I've been doing OK so far.

If you keep a gun around to "protect" you and yours, even if nothing ever happened to cause you to use it, you're catering to fear of what "could be".  

You and your family "could" get shot dead even if you did have a gun in the house.  

So the question then becomes, how much of one's fear is one willing to cater to?

(Violence begets violence, regardles of whether the "weapon" is a gun or a knife or hate speech or a burning cross).

Jessica
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bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2008, 07:55:49 pm »

Jessica A. Engle wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 18:41

I believe it is an incorrect assumption that you "must" have a weapon.

That's fine, no one is saying you have to have a gun.
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Brad Blackwood
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Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2008, 08:34:39 pm »

Let's put Luke 22:16 into perspective.  Jesus warns the Apostles about the coming tribulation with his arrest.  Peter misunderstands the symbolic use of the "sword" (remember Paul's admonition to put on the armor - with sword and shield- of faith) and says he has two swords.  In the garden, Peter cuts off the servants ear.  Christ rebukes him and heals the servant.  Later on Peter denies Christ three times.  That's the happy ending for using a weapon to defend one's self.  The evil was not the men coming for Christ but Satan "sifting them as wheat".

Now, someone breaks into my house and has a gun.  I am to remember that using and possessing a gun is stupid, as I said it is.  I will indeed remember that and I will trust in Christ.  What greater weapon is there?  Peter, when sinking on the water (after first walking on it) as his faith weakened cried out, "Lord save me" - and he did.

With a gun I could pray, "Oh Lord, my faith is in you but I can't trust you to help me right now so I pulled out the Holy Hand-grenade of Antioch.  This is what I trust in at the moment 'cause if I wait for you to do something I and my family will surely die (which of course would only bring us into heaven and into your presence) but instead of that I'm going to shoot this son of a bitch so he can stand before you.  Of course Lord, I don't know what circumstances lead to this moment of confrontation and what I should learn from it, but Dear Lord I have spent money on a gun and I'm going to use it.  I will follow the honored American tradition of "kill them all and let God sort them out".  Dear Lord, make my aim true as I kill this guy 'cause you Dear Lord can't do anything else to help us but somehow I think you can make the bullet fly straight as I stand here in an adrenaline rush and hand shaking."

That's quite a prayer.  The one ending "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen." is pretty good.

I don't buy this hand gun crap at all.




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PRobb

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2008, 08:54:08 pm »

Bill_Urick wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:06

PRobb wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 18:48

I'm waiting for the chorus of conservatives condemning those unelected activist judges for overturning a democratically enacted law.



Uh, that effectively reversed a constitutional amendment?
So, if a state dominated by Republicans produced a majority vote to outlaw media criticism of the Bush administration, you wouldn't be in favor of the courts overturning that?
Unbridled majority rule is mob rule, that's why we're a republic.

I totally agree.

Quote:

I love intellectual consistency.

Me too. That's what I'm asking for. When the California court affirmed the Constitutional principle of equality the right was screaming about "activist judges" not having the right to overturn laws.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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PRobb

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2008, 09:11:12 pm »

Bill_Urick wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:06


Uh, that effectively reversed a constitutional amendment?
.

It's not that simple.
Quote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


The second amendment is the only one that comes with a qualification. There is a discussion to be had over what the qualification means.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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PookyNMR

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2008, 09:53:00 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 16:17

Hunt if you want.  Own a rifle if you want but a semi-automatic weapon or a hand gun has only one purpose - to kill a human being.


Actually, there are a very large number of competitive target sports for handguns. They  are both fun and challenging.

There are also a number of competitive target sports for semi-auto rifles and shotguns as well.  Also incredibly fun and challenging.

I'm not a fun of using guns for defense.  I'm not sure that I ever would.  But there definitely is a place for using firearms for sports, wildlife conservation / hunting.
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Nathan Rousu

Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2008, 10:21:29 pm »

I am not opposed to shooting as a sport.  I do believe however that shooting with semi-automatic weapons and handguns at targets is the "peace time" practice for shooting someone later, if only in self-defense.  In my much earlier years I enjoyed target shooting with a rifle.  I probably would again, but not with a semi nor a hand gun.
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