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Author Topic: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed  (Read 10232 times)

Jessica A. Engle

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #135 on: July 02, 2008, 02:11:10 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:31

Hi Jessica, glad you're here - I enjoy your thoughts on these matters. You always bring a fresh perspective!

Jessica A. Engle wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:21

Anyway, I just thought I'd point out that it is God's desire to protect us and save us, so I don't really agree that relying on God in such a situation is "putting him to the test".

I consider it much like going to the doctor or hospital with sickness - are you relying on God or are you relying on your (man's) intervention? If I were to apply the same logic towards medical care as you are towards self-defense, then I'd not go to the doctor, but would rely on God's desire to protect and save us. Is that how you live? I don't think that's how God expects us to live.

I believe that God expects us to rely on Him while we also rely on the intelligence he blessed us with.


Thanks for your reply.

To answer your question, no, that is not how I live.  

Jesus said that it is the sick who need a doctor, not the healthy.  But if I am sick, I have to believe I have a sickness.  Otherwise what impetus have I to see a doctor (or to believe in God)?

What I mean is, if owning a Gun made me feel that I was "safe", I wouldn't have any reason to need God to protect me in such a situation.  (BTW Based on what you've said, I don't think this is the case with you.)

Likewise, if I were very wealthy, and had an expensive car and was part of a happy, loving family, I probably would feel very "safe".  I doubt I would see much value in the promises of protection and guardianship God makes.

I rely on God to teach me the nature and extent of my sickness, whether it is physical (treated by a doctor) or spiritual (treated with prayer, church, study, tutelage, and more prayer).  My natural inclination is to see myself as indestructable, incorruptable.  This is not relying on our own intelligence, as you say, but relying on a false sense of power that couldn't be further from reality!  So, like with many things, each person has to closely examine their motivations, and self-honesty is a dynamic process which will last your whole life (should one choose to engage it).

And if owning a Gun somehow helps me have feelings of  incorruptability, then for me thats the wrong choice.  That is spiritual sickness, which can be treated as above.  This is not to imply that everyone would struggle the same as me.  If you don't, then your spirit is different than mine.  God knows that.

Jessica
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Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2008, 02:24:11 pm »

Nathan, either in Canada or the U.S. (more preferably as that is my point of reference), what is the percentage of target shooters out of all those who own guns?

BTW, while looking up that answer, I didn't say gun owners are out for blood.  I said hand guns really only have one purpose, that is to kill people.  Some owners look for trouble, some don't and for some trouble finds them.  But the purpose in all cases is to shoot at someone (I know not target shooters).
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Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2008, 02:31:02 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:51

PookyNMR wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:46

Now it's Barry's turn.  Brad, would you be willing to take Barry to a range so he could try his hand at a target sport?

Haha, of course - but he's a pretty good distance away from me...


I said earlier in the thread I have done some target shooting and probably would enjoy it again.  Let's see... if I go today this will be the first time in 42 years... I probably would miss the target completely (thus adding to the accidental gun injuries statistic).  I prefer a flamethrower.  But I don't want to own one.
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bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2008, 02:37:16 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 13:31

I prefer a flamethrower.  But I don't want to own one.

Oooh - I do!

hehehe
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Brad Blackwood
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PookyNMR

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2008, 02:59:20 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:24

Nathan, either in Canada or the U.S. (more preferably as that is my point of reference), what is the percentage of target shooters out of all those who own guns?


In Canada, I'd say right up near 99%.  In the USA, while I'm less familiar, by logic I'd put it up in the >90% range.

ALL hunters go to the target range at the very least to practice their marksmanship so they have adequate skill to put food on the table for the family.

But all the hunters I know and have met also go to the target range not only to sight in rifles and to tune up their own hand made ammunition, but because they enjoy the challenge of the sport, even if doing it informally with friends a/o family.

No matter what the end focus of the skills are (target sports, hunting, or even defense), all shooters participate in some sort of target sport.

In Canada, you're only allowed a defensive firearm in 3 specific circumstances:
1) living / working in a remote area where wildlife predators are a serious danger
2) working as a commissioned law enforcement or military personnel
3) working as a trained and licensed specialized security personnel

So finding people who train for defensive up here is rare.

But if you're asking for a percentage of people who do target sports only, then that I don't know for certain.

In Canada, I do know for certain that aside from the above cases, one can ONLY legally own a handgun for target sports.

I know in the USA, that is very different.

Among rifle shooters, I'd say well over half (most likely nearing 75%) are hunters (all of whom are target shooters).  A suspiring number are interested in the historical value and experience of certain designs and their relation to history (in my experience about ~10-20% of owners own some sort of historical style gun).  But probably 25% or more are folks who are purely target shooters.

Bear in mind these are my estimations based on my experience, so the numbers could indeed be wrong.

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:24

BTW, while looking up that answer, I didn't say gun owners are out for blood.  I said hand guns really only have one purpose, that is to kill people.  Some owners look for trouble, some don't and for some trouble finds them.  But the purpose in all cases is to shoot at someone (I know not target shooters).


Well, if "you know not target shooters," than you must concede that handguns do have more than one purpose.

And maybe I should mention that there are a large number of handguns that are specifically designed and manufactured for target sports.

I do however concede to the fact that many the handguns do follow some sort of police / military design.  But even those designs can create some interesting variations in target sports.
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Nathan Rousu

Jessica A. Engle

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2008, 03:04:00 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 13:37

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 13:31

I prefer a flamethrower.  But I don't want to own one.

Oooh - I do!

hehehe


I'll see your flame thrower and raise you a Super Soaker!

I once took my cousin's Super Soaker and in place of where the reservoir tank went.... I screwed in the garden hose.

Good times were had that day.

Jessica
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bblackwood

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2008, 03:28:39 pm »

Jessica A. Engle wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 14:04

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 13:37

Barry Hufker wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 13:31

I prefer a flamethrower.  But I don't want to own one.

Oooh - I do!

hehehe


I'll see your flame thrower and raise you a Super Soaker!

I once took my cousin's Super Soaker and in place of where the reservoir tank went.... I screwed in the garden hose.

Good times were had that day.

Aaah, pure genius. I think I'll be acquiring one of these for trial soon...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

ssltech

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2008, 03:54:51 pm »

See? -all weapon-heads are obsessed, I tell ya! Wink

...-Just kidding, I assure everyone!  Very Happy

Keith
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

John Ivan

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #143 on: July 02, 2008, 04:17:43 pm »

http://images.ea.com/eagames/official/battlefield/battlefield2/us/newsletter/may_06/a10_warthog.jpg


If I were going to own a gun, it would be this!! Try! Go ahead!! Try to shoot me down with your wimpy 20 cal!!..

I guess it would be hard to have just laying about the house in case an intruder came intrudin' though.. But , I could just fly C.A.P. over my home every night..


Ivan................
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

danickstr

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #144 on: July 02, 2008, 04:44:56 pm »

I recently started dating this girl and I sleep much better.... unless I bump into gunsteel.
index.php/fa/9374/0/
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Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com

Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #145 on: July 02, 2008, 04:54:04 pm »

Ivan,
Is the plane (not the girl above) a "warthog"?  That's what it reminds me of anyway.

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maxim

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #146 on: July 02, 2008, 10:08:27 pm »

if god hadn't meant us to shoot elephants, he wouldn't have given us elephant guns...
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Barry Hufker

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #147 on: July 02, 2008, 11:09:01 pm »

I agree.  If God didn't want things to be shot he wouldn't have given us shotguns.  And squirrel rifles.  And moose calls...(??)
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maxim

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Re: SCOTUS: Heller affirmed
« Reply #148 on: July 02, 2008, 11:44:17 pm »

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