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[Keyplayer]

This question is for  all the producers  out there.  I was wondering what the salary expenses are like in your market(s).

What do you guys/ladies have to pay for your side men on sessions? Are you paying different salaries for the type of job (demo vrs jingle vrs master vrs industrial video/dvd, etc.)? What does it  cost you to deliver final product to your clients?

[natpub]

....((bleh, sorry, I am in a shitty mood today))...

[[edit: weeks later, yikes, I sure was in a bleak space that day, best I elminate this post]]--KT

[Level]

IF I believe in the project, I will work pro bono+ 5 points if that is what it takes to see the project come to light. I don't charge by the hour, I charge per project. The less I have a "heart" in it, the more I charge

Very hard to put a figure on it because it really depends on the sales, promotion and distribution.

I wish I could charge 10 grand a project...most of my artists are broke anyway so if the talent is good, I see it through to the pressing. After that, it is up to the pass off team what happens.

[Keyplayer]

You guys are answering about rates to your clients. I'm asking what you pay your sidemen. The sidemen could care less about your belief in the artist or your points on the back end.

If you've got to hire a rhythm section for a singer, for example, what does that cost you?

[Jim Frazier]

I pay union fees. Here in Nashville, that's pretty standard. As a member of the union myself, I understand the reasoning for that.

I can't recall the exact figures odd the top of my head, but for demos it's around $160 per player, around $180 per player for limited pressing, and around $320 per player for master scale. That's for a 3 hour block.

Obviously, the budget of the record determines if we're spending a day on one  song, or getting the tracks to 10 songs in one day!

I can call in favors when I need to, but I really reserve those times when it's absolutely necessary.

[sdevino]

No unions in these parts so it depends on what the client has and whether the musicina is willing to do it. Generally anywhere from $250 to $300 to show up and do something for a day.

[doughiggins]

Keyplayer wrote on Wed, 02 June 2004 06:18

This question is for  all the producers  out there.  I was wondering what the salary expenses are like in your market(s). What do you guys/ladies have to pay for your side men on sessions? Are you paying different salaries for the type of job (demo vrs jingle vrs master vrs industrial video/dvd, etc.)? What does it  cost you to deliver final product to your clients?

In LA, if you know the right people and have relationships, you can get some of the double and triple scale guys at about $100 a hour for DEMOS or low budget indie stuff. This comes at the pretense that you actually do work that will give them full scale rates when it comes your way.

Hiring players that are of a lesser calaber, sometimes suprisingly expect the same amount...and take a WHOLE LOT longer, with a whole lot more editing on the back end.

So yes, demo rates should be different from master rates, if the person you are hiring are top notch real session players, if not, then demos/indie stuff is probably the only thing they are getting and they are just happy to get the call....but really most people should be happy at a call especially bass players and drummers...any way...blah blah blah...

[George Massenburg]

Keyplayer wrote on Wed, 02 June 2004 08:18

This question is for  all the producers  out there.  I was wondering what the salary expenses are like in your market(s). What do you guys/ladies have to pay for your side men on sessions? Are you paying different salaries for the type of job (demo vrs jingle vrs master vrs industrial video/dvd, etc.)? What does it  cost you to deliver final product to your clients?

I've been working on a record for about a year, and I've spent roughly $80,000 on musicians (singers, artists et al).  This represents over 60% of the budget.

George

[Erik]

George Massenburg wrote on Sat, 05 June 2004 13:05

I've been working on a record for about a year, and I've spent roughly $80,000 on musicians (singers, artists et al).  This represents over 60% of the budget.

Nonsense.  Actually paying the players?  Actually putting the music budget into the music?  You're nuts.

Out here in LA, producers get a budget, then they allocate 95% of it to the latest toys and other crap.  Then they call in favors while they go overtime and overbudget wiring shit up for the first time.  Then they call in Jon Brion to overplay.

Works great, every time.  You should give it a shot.

--Erik

[George Massenburg]

Erik wrote on Sat, 05 June 2004 15:26

George Massenburg wrote on Sat, 05 June 2004 13:05 I've been working on a record for about a year, and I've spent roughly $80,000 on musicians (singers, artists et al).  This represents over 60% of the budget. Nonsense.  Actually paying the players?  Actually putting the music budget into the music?  You're nuts. Out here in LA, producers get a budget, then they allocate 95% of it to the latest toys and other crap.  Then they call in favors while they go overtime and overbudget wiring shit up for the first time.  Then they call in Jon Brion to overplay. Works great, every time.  You should give it a shot. --Erik

As you know, Erik, I sorta was there.  And hey, you left out alot, such as...

...some junior record company A&R begging Diane Warren for one of her 10 minute, piece-of-shit, cookie cutter songs. (Oh yeah, she'll show up for the mix and make some inane comment.)

...$100,000 EACH for some flavor-of-the-minute NY or London remixer to redo one of your favorite tunes, a one-name guy to whom you send a tempo map and a lead vocal and...hey...they'll take it from there.

You know...I gotta stop.  In fact, it doesn't work every time.  It's ruined music.

George

[Level]

Quote:

...$100,000 EACH for some flavor-of-the-minute NY or London remixer to redo one of your favorite tunes, a one-name guy to whom you send a tempo map and a lead vocal and...hey...they'll take it from there. You know...I gotta stop. In fact, it doesn't work every time. It's ruined music.

Just another form of robbery IMHO..

About 15% of the next budget I have to deal with is paying cats that are parasites that will only slow the entire process down. Unfortunantly, it is the artist request to have them "get in the way"

I pay my players 200 dollars to get the job done per day each. When they gig, they make around 650 a week each for 3 days as musicians in a house band...and I still think I am getting a stellar deal.

My regular session drummer has been know to knock out two entire albums in one day..and he will get a thousand dollar bonus if it is tight and maybe 2 points. (Only the drummers usually get points with the way I put situations together other than the lead vocalist/writers and exects (underwriters))

[J.J. Blair]

I won't producer or engineer for anything less than triple spec.  Hohwever, I find that you can usually get musicians to play for food stamps or some blow, but since I don't have access to either, if it's a major artist, it usually goes through the union.  I think demo rate for the union is $75 per song, if you are using guys who do lots of sessions.  I tend to use good friends who will work for me for free, but if there's a budget, I try to get them anywhere from $100 per song to $300 for the day.  The trade off is that my friends who work for free know that if they ever come to me with a project that I'll track it for them all on spec.  My last session that I paid a real bonafide "Yo Cat" for, he came in and blew three passes on the sax and I gave him a $100 cash.  But he only had to drive less than a mile.  

However, work is scarce these days and there are some great unknown players in LA with no work who would be happy to build up their studio resum

[Keyplayer]

George Massenburg wrote on Sat, 05 June 2004 13:05

I've been working on a record for about a year, and I've spent roughly $80,000 on musicians (singers, artists et al).  This represents over 60% of the budget. George

Keyplayer: $80K!! Are you using an orchestra, big band or choir on some of the songs? How many songs does this figure represent? Are you playing anything on this project? Can you give me a clearer picture of how you got to that number?

[George Massenburg]

Keyplayer wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 16:59

George Massenburg wrote on Sat, 05 June 2004 13:05 I've been working on a record for about a year, and I've spent roughly $80,000 on musicians (singers, artists et al).  This represents over 60% of the budget. George Keyplayer: $80K!! Are you using an orchestra, big band or choir on some of the songs? How many songs does this figure represent? Are you playing anything on this project? Can you give me a clearer picture of how you got to that number?

Well, I can't really break it down for you.  Sorry.  

It's a band made up of studio cats, pretty much cutting live sections; 14 songs, generally tracking 2 tunes per day, sometimes only 1; occasionally doing the odd solo later.  In my experience the is what double-scale musicians - which is to say, very good musicians - might be expected to cost.  Not to mention a few double-scale AFTRA singers.

I'm not playing anything, my producer's advance is minimal, and I'm taking neither engineering nor personal studio time.

George

[Level]

Keyplayer;

Travel and expenses such as lodging add up. Not to mention shipping amplifiers and axes across the Country. You would never expect a session player to have to pay for their hotel and live on beans in a hostel.

I can't say it has never been done. I have been known to live in my car for a gig where everything was booked and the session director had no clue.

[J.J. Blair]

In LA, 80 grand on top session guys is easy to do.  Figure a grand a day on guys like Jim Keltner or Dean Parks.  On a record I worked on last year, they spent 50 grand on strings, and the guy at the label liked the sound of the "Analog Velvet" patch on the Triton that was laid down for scratch better, so they didn't use the strings.  Typical record biz idiocy.  

50 grand on strings they didn't use, and do you know how long I had to wait to get paid for my engineering fee?  Took like five fucking months.  The record was already double platinum by the time I got paid.  Unbelievable.

My favorite part is that the artist (already a multi-millionaire) bitched several times to the producer about all the receipts for Italian Food and Pizza, that were used to feed the musicians and engineers.  He was still complaining about that after the record was double platinum.  What happened to the days at the Record Plant when you could get blow from the runner and tag it on your studio bill as "tape"?  (Personally, I'm glad that shit is over.)

Oh, a few years ago, I engineered and co-produced this one record.  I left it up to the other co-producer to deal with the session contracts because we were in Nashville on his turf.  Big mistake.  He gave all the musicians double scale per song, and this was an indy label record.  There was almost nothing left to pay us, and I did the mixes practically for free.  Since I only got a point and a half on the record, I kinda did mind.

[Cerumen]

here's one example of a super producer
and his practices.
emilio estefan...

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2001-09-06/feature.html/ 1/index.html

[Keyplayer]

George Massenburg wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 19:52

Well, I can't really break it down for you.  Sorry.   It's a band made up of studio cats, pretty much cutting live sections; 14 songs, generally tracking 2 tunes per day, sometimes only 1; occasionally doing the odd solo later.  In my experience the is what double-scale musicians - which is to say, very good musicians - might be expected to cost.  Not to mention a few double-scale AFTRA singers. I'm not playing anything, my producer's advance is minimal, and I'm taking neither engineering nor personal studio time. George

Keyplayer: So, obviously, this is not a project for a band. Is this a solo artist or a vocal group. Did they write any of their own material, or are you required to develop the entire act?