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Author Topic: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.  (Read 3032 times)

Barry Hufker

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‘There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes.'

Retired General Anotnio Taguba is commenting on an independent report by medical doctors regarding prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Guatanamo.  He himself was a casualty of his own investigation, being forced out of the Army after presenting an honest report.

CNN has covered the story about General Taguba commenting on the new report.  This is not a left-wing smear or overstatement.

Sy Hersh wrote the original story of Taguba's report and forced retirement.  You can read a transcript here of Hersh speaking with Wolf Blitzer.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/17/sy-hersh-on-tagubas -abu-ghraib-investigation/

This obviously goes much higher than the poor low level troops who have already been prosecuted for their role.  This goes VERY high up in the government.

Thank God someone has now officially said it.  The U.S. and the Bush Administration have committed war crimes.

Now, let's get these fuckers to The Hague.
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amorris

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 06:03:18 pm »

panties on their heads? electric ball shocks? decapitating civilians for building schools? lieing about when they knew about the panties and the balls?
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Barry Hufker

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 06:51:02 pm »

From the CNN transcript:

CNN reporter, Barbara Starr: ...these physicians say they found evidence that these men had been badly mistreated, tortured, if you will. the report says that there was evidence of “beatings, electrical shock, sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation and sodomy.” Dr. Allen Keller was one of the medical evaluators: We found clear physical and psychological evidence of torture and abuse often causing lasting suffering, whether it was scars from beatings or nightmares, sexual humiliations that they endured.

EDIT: Not one mention of the dreaded "panties on head" method.
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Hallams

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 09:37:22 pm »

In a few other saloon threads the topic of checks and balances in the political system have been mentioned ( it's a bit of a hobby horse of mine ).I admit my knowledge of USA politics is limited but it seems that these types of independent reports and other investigations play a major role in keeping politicians accountable, mostly as their term of office is drawing to an end, e.g., Watergate.
Administrations of a certain ilk tend to get away with as much as they can in response to appeasing the pressure groups that drive the behind the scene agenda. Given the situation that many Americans do have real concerns for how "democracy" is functioning in their nation I would think that these efforts to bring accountability etc,would be encouraged, supported, and actively driven by public pressure.
 What is alarming to me is the fact that we seem to be revisiting   a dynamic that existed in the 7o's / 80s but now the focus is the Middle East, not South America, a time when the USA showed NO respect for the democratic process of sovereign nations.
 
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Chris Hallam.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 09:51:46 pm »

I'm afraid you're right about the repetition of a destructive cycle the U.S. inflicts on the world - and itself.

At this time, unlike Vietnam in the 70s, the general public couldn't care less.  There is no draft so no one is afraid of being called up to fight this war.  The war is in an "unseen" country fought by our "unseen" troops (although we all see these "I support the troops" stickers everywhere) with "unseen" casualties.  In the U.S., if it isn't in your face it doesn't exist.  So the government can do what it wants.  And it does.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 09:56:07 pm »

Ah.  Here's the quote of the day:

Torture “is basically subject to perception,” CIA counterterrorism lawyer Jonathan Fredman told a group of military and intelligence officials gathered at the U.S.-run detention camp in Cuba on Oct. 2, 2002, according to minutes of the meeting. “If the detainee dies, you’re doing it wrong.”
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Jessica A. Engle

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 10:47:01 pm »

I heard about this recently on the radio.  I know it is long, but it is worth reading.

This is a clip from an article in the New York Times 2005.  It talks about the reverse-engineering of the SERE program (used to train US Soldiers).

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Snip from: "The Experiment" by Jane Mayer
The New Yorker, July 11, 2005



....SERE, which stands for “Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape.” SERE was created by the Air Force, at the end of the Korean War, to teach pilots and other personnel considered at high risk of being captured by enemy forces how to withstand and resist extreme forms of abuse. After the Vietnam War, the program was expanded to the Army and the Navy. Most details of the program’s curriculum are classified.

Each branch of the military now has its own version of SERE training. The flagship program is conducted by the Army’s John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School, at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where Green Berets train. There are several levels of sere courses; one, Level C, includes a gruelling exercise in which trainees endure days of physical and psychological hardship inside a mock prisoner-of-war camp.

This spring, I spoke at length with several people familiar with the SERE programs, including a longtime affiliate. According to these sources, a small number of psychologists and other clinicians oversee the SERE program at Fort Bragg. The supervisors discreetly check on trainees’ progress at frequent intervals, keeping extensive charts and records of their behavior and medical status. Numerous experiments aimed at documenting trainees’ stress levels have been conducted by SERE-affiliated scientists. By analyzing blood and saliva, they have charted fluctuations in trainees’ level of cortisol, a stress hormone, and these data have been used to understand what inspires maximum anxiety in the trainees.

The theory behind the SERE program is that soldiers who are exposed to nightmarish treatment during training will be better equipped to deal with such terrors should they face them in the real world. Accordingly, the program is a storehouse of knowledge about coercive methods of interrogation. One way to stimulate acute anxiety, SERE scientists have learned, is to create an environment of radical uncertainty: trainees are hooded; their sleep patterns are disrupted; they are starved for extended periods; they are stripped of their clothes; they are exposed to extreme temperatures; and they are subjected to harsh interrogations by officials impersonating enemy captors. (Colonel Hans Bush, a spokesman at Fort Bragg, declined to “disclose the details of the specific challenges our students face.”) Research in social psychology has shown that a person’s capacity for “self-regulation”—the ability to moderate or control his own behavior—can be substantially undermined in situations of high anxiety. If, for instance, a prisoner of war is trying to avoid revealing secrets to enemy interrogators, he is much less likely to succeed if he has been deprived of sleep or is struggling to ignore intense pain.

According to the SERE affiliate and two other sources familiar with the program, after September 11th several psychologists versed in SERE techniques began advising interrogators at Guant
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Jessica A. Engle

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 10:57:52 pm »

Oh, and here's some bonus reading.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``
Excerpt: Third Geneva Convention

(Article 13): "Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated."
(Article 13): "...Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."
(Article 17): "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."
(Article 25): "Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favorable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same area."
(Article 27): "Clothing, underwear and footwear shall be supplied to prisoners of war"
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danickstr

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 11:13:30 pm »

panties on  the head seems to comply with article 27
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Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com

Barry Hufker

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 11:32:32 pm »

Yes, panties on the head do indeed seem to comply with the Geneva Convention.  But you're not including the emotional stress panties on your head can cause.  I know.  I've been there.  And it wasn't pretty.
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PRobb

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 12:02:52 am »

I saw an interview with Justice Mad  Scalia where he defended torture. When asked if torture violated the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause of the Bill of Rights he said no. Why? Because torture isn't punishment! He actually said that with a straight face.

Keeping the whackos from a solid Supreme Court Majority is the biggest reason to vote for Obama.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke

Barry Hufker

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2008, 12:08:13 am »

I agree it's a strong reason.  I just don't "get" who these people are.  Where is their humanity, reason, compassion, common sense?

It's hard to imagine such evil so blatantly displayed and so consistent in its performance.
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Hallams

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2008, 12:29:13 am »

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 14:08

I agree it's a strong reason.  I just don't "get" who these people are.  Where is their humanity, reason, compassion, common sense?

It's hard to imagine such evil so blatantly displayed and so consistent in its performance.


I know this seems like going back a few years but when the cold war ended it was an opportunity to "give peace a chance"
That opportunity has been missed and the USA has lost a lot of goodwill internationally. It could have/should have displayed its "Leadership" in international affairs in a manner that made her people proud to be American. I feel the need to say i have no problem with the American people and really don't want to be involved in verbal bashing the US etc, but as you stated Barry, "i just don't get who these people are."
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Chris Hallam.
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John Ivan

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2008, 03:36:06 am »

To follow Barry and Chris, I would ad that it's not only the folks at the top, Justices, Presidents, CIA heads and so on the I don't "get".. It's the common man too. It almost seems like a genetic disorder or confusion... I heard some things this week from people who I think are otherwise pretty smart and with it people that really made me wonder.. The things that are being said about Obama are really freakin' me out..

"You know, I'm not sure he's really a Christian!".. --"I'm not sure America is ready for a black president"--

"Tax And Spend Liberal"

"Soft on touriststsiststs.." The bush way of saying it..

It's all nonsense and I hope these things are handled differently by the Democratic Party this time. As in, with an absolutely brutal hand. We can not allow things to be said and go un answered this time.. Very swift and powerful responses need to be made in the face of this kind of garbage..
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

Daniel Farris

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Re: "Bush Administration Committed War Crimes"- Gen. Taguba, U.S.
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 05:38:33 am »

John Ivan wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 00:36

"Tax And Spend Liberal"


As offensive as the rest of those remarks are, this one reflects a kind of stupidity that simply can't be reasoned with.

DF
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