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[Chris Ilett]

Don't worry about it, I spilled a bottle of fuckup all over mine, and didn't even wipe it up.

[maxim]

"...someone’s drunk friend won’t get off the drums. Oh… another drunk friend trying to btb!"

quoted 'coz it's funny...

[Greg Dixon]

Thanks to everyone who's reviewed these so far.

Fiasco wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 05:24

Greg Dixon - First, probably my pick so far;               nice work on the bass;               wanted to hear a little more top on the gits;               the harmonies seemed a bit uneven?;               the piano sounded fantastic;               felt like the right channel was always a bit heavy.

Thanks for the kind words. I spent a lot of time getting the bass to sit comfortably. I did roll a bit of tops off the acoustics, so they wouldn't be too piercing and quite a bit off the electrics. Right channel probably was a hit heavy with the piano and lead guitar. Don't know what I was thinking there.... probably about the bass!

ATOR wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 01:04

Greg Dixon Phasey guitar. I like the stereo drums. In a quiet mix like this I'd like the lead vocal sticking out more. Balance is good.

I agree about the vocal, especially in the bridge. Which guitars are you hearing as phasey?

M Carter wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 04:45

Greg dixon - great mix.  The guitar 'solo' on the right is a little loud with nothing else going on on left side though. Occasionally the vocal jumps out at me, but generally this mix sounds dictated by the song, which is great. Piano could come down a notch though.

Thanks. Yes the lead guitar and piano are up a tad too much. I tried not to use much compression on the vocal and automate it, but I know I missed a few bits.

J-Texas wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 01:10

Greg Dixon – Acoustic is weird leaning on the left side like that. Love hearing the bass strings against the click of the kick. Organ panning is freaking me out. I like spreading things out on this one, but I chose different panning. I think it was more of a necessity than personal opinion though. Nice piano, but too loud for me. That btb is so off beat that it is really distracting spread out. Very cool ending with the organ.

Mmm interesting. The acoustic wasn't panned at all. I just used the m/s straight up the middle. I worked hard on the bass and drums in an attempt to make them almost one. I thought the beatbox was ok (obviously), but it was hard finding a place where they felt ok. Agree the piano is up a bit too much. I used the Voce Spin (Leslie) plug-in over the organ, as it just seemed to back a bit of movement.

[slash5969]

Random-order blind listens. Overall, a lot of fun. And I learned, which is the point. My goals with this mix were 1) getting good vocal sounds and 2) trying to find balance. I appreciate the feedback from everyone. These are my uneducated observations, and as always, your mileage may vary.

1. J Hall
   Great beginning. Good acoustic tone. Vocal a bit low-key for me - give me more. Drums are a bit heavy - I didn't hear this as a rock song. I like the shimmer in the electric guitar lines. This is balanced and full, if a bit bottom-heavy. I dig the Coldplay bridge piano thing. Luscious harmonies. More vocal, less thump. Close, though. I like.

2. Greg Dixon
   Nice balanced feel. "Rock song" bottom again, but well done. The drums in particular seem to plod, just in context to the rest of the song, not because of anything the mix engineer did. Piano is front and center on the bridge portion. Drives the tail end of the song nicely. I wanted less drums through the end.

3. Antman
   Nice acoustic tone.  Drums don't overpower, but the tamborine isn't there either. Electric guitar a bit loud. More piano, please. Messy ending.

4. slash5969
   This one is quieter than most have been so far. It fits - it's that delicate thing again. Vocals are up-front but not overpowering or drenched in effect. No drums...this is mine. I like it. I'll be quiet now.

5. Chris Ilett
   Another mix that starts out very nice and then gets the "rock song" treatment when the bass and drums come in. Crisp vocal  and not buried, very out-front - I like that. I really missed the AG counter part @ 2:20. Beatbox is overpowering, and the mix becomes ponderous at that point. Missed the "lushness" of all those harmony parts.

6. ATOR    
   Bright start here. Rock song feel when drums come in. Oh my! - electric guitar IS out of a rock song! Different take, but interesting after hearing this tune a few hundred times over the last week. There's a lot to like in this mix, but it's a little off-putting by virtue of how different it is. The delay on the EG line is perfect! Piano front and center at bridge - very nice - has a certain Coldplay vibe to it here. Someone else used the harmonies more than once - cool idea! A+ for originality - I would NEVER have come up with this mix for this song.

7. Teleric    
   Another well-balanced beginning with rock-song bottom-end. Vocal out front and crisp. Organ a bit powerful through the verses. Piano strong in the bridge, and I like that. Clave a bit hot, as is bass drum. This mix works, although again I miss the "gentleness" that I heard in the song.

8. Daniel Farris
   Beautiful intro. Bass is a bit hot. Drums aren't, which is nice for a change. Good vocal tone. This mix actually became one of my favorites once I turned the bass down a few notches. Nice balanced feel through the verses. I missed the piano through the bridge, and I felt just a tad cheated by the fade.

9. SingSing
   Here we go. Delicate intro. Bass doesn't overpower and drums are a support instrument, as they should be in this song. The overamped electric seems a bit out of place. Nice "eerieness" from the organ through the verses. Crisp vocals. I would have liked the piano through the bridge instead of the electric guitar. I like the harmony repeated. Rather abrupt end. This one was really close, I think.

10. Osumosan
   Nice beginning - mellow, as it should be. Is this mine? No - there are the drums, and they're a bit heavy. Did everyone really hear this tune as a rock song, or are we just pre-disposed to mix drums that "thump"? Otherwise, these are nice sounds here. I like the vocal. Beatbox portion seems a bit too loud. I would have cut the last 5 or 6 seconds off of the end of the tune.

11. Greg Thompson
   Can you say "reverb"? It sort of works, after I adjust to it. Acoustic is a bit loud. Nice balanced bottom without overpowering the mix. This mix sounds louder than most of the others I've heard so far. creative use of the organ track. Piano is out-front through the bridge - I dig that Coldplay feel every time someone gets it right. I wanted a mellower ending - perhaps fade out the bottom sooner?

12. martthie 08
   This mix is HOT. Thick in midrange, but somehow thin feeling overall. Acoustic is predominant. Everything seems to be fighting for space here, and the end result is sort of claustrophobic.

13. Rankus
  I like this intro. I'd think it was mine if mine hadn't already played. Mellow and delicate. Drums are unobtrusive. Sparse instrumentation here, on purpose I assume. I like the concept, since I heard this as a 180-degree off-center tune myself. It's not a rock song, and no one would mistake this mix for a rock song. It's a bit barren and ragged through the bridge portion, however. I would have loved to hear that piano shine through. The acoustic becomes almost annoying towards the end - it really needed some relief. The kick drum at the end felt out of place. Great concept for the song, but you lost me somewhere around the bridge.

14. Huds
   Another one that sounds like mine at first - mellow and gentle-feeling. I like how the drums sort of "ease" in. Acoustic is a bit loud, but I like the overall feel. Bass is anemic, but it works in this song. Turn that acoustic down a bit, and we've got a first-half winner. The predominant kick drum at the bridge would work better if it didn't lag behind the beat so much. Clave is MIA - on purpose, I suppose? I sort of miss it, after hearing it there a few hundred times. Acoustic still too loud, even through the Coldplay piano section. The distorted beatbox didn't work for me, and neither does the fade. Another one that's close, I think.

15. MGAudio
   Bright and shiny. Vocal feels loud, as does kick drum. If Bob Dylan covered a Cars tune, I imagine it would sound something like this. Bottom is light even though kick is loud. This one just feels out of sorts to me.

16. dconstruction
   Vocals very wet - from the bottom of a well.  More rocksong bottom - bass is ponderous. Almost a salsa feel to the bridge. Coldplay piano - you know I like it. Clave is distracting, like a cricket in the house at night. I just didn't hear this tune this heavy.

17. Strummer
   Harmony start - cool effect, but a bit out of place when everything falls away to that stark beginning. I want more lead vocal and less plodding drums. Anemic bass. Too much kick. I like the panning at the bridge, and the bass shows up, too. Piano a bit muted for the full-on Coldplay effect. Where's the organ? The harmony again at the very end is sort of tedious - I was ready for the end before it ever came.

18. Fiasco
   Nice, delicate start. I lose the clarity on the vocal once the drums and bass come in. Nice electric tone - I wish I had worked a bit more on it in my mix. I like the organ there in the verses. Not enough piano - missed the Coldplay shiver. Harmony a bit subdued - give me more, please. Interesting return of the electric. Unusual end, but it held my attention.

19. The Dan
   Very nice acoustic sound. Vocal a bit bland by comparison. Too much dirge drums for me. Good electric tone - why didn't I do that? Guitars sound really good in this mix, but the bottom end doesn't groove me. Too much acoustic through the Coldplay portion of the bridge. Lush harmonies - I like. Vocals get lost after the bridge. More vocal, less acoustic and drums, throw in a little 'verb, and we're there.

20. imdrecordings
   Great start. Good vocal tone. Bass resonates a bit - more compression, please. I like the organ through the verses. Coldplay is in da house! I dig that etheral vibe! Harmonies a tad soft, but I like the piano line out. I like the way it sort of petered-out at the end - would have been even better if the bass/kick drum disappeared sooner.

21. firefly
   Oh yeah! Nice beginning here. AG tone is spot-on. Vocals are crisp and up front. Bass fills out the bottom on entrance without overpowering. Nice drum presence without beating me over the head with them. Balanced and full. Too much acoustic and not enough piano at the Coldplay point. Where's the shaker? Overall, one of my favorites so far.

22. southboundloco
   My quaalude kicked in. Or your head fell in your soup. Or both. Ouch.

23. maxim
   Different start. The electric makes an early appearance. Ponderous bottom. Rocksong-itis. Premature harmonies, but they work for me. This is ponderous but it doesn't plod like many of them have. Full-out Coldplay, with elephant phartz to boot! See me grinnin' over here? I'm not so certain that this mix really works, but it's certainly refreshingly different after hearing this song the conventional way a few hundred times.

24. M Carter
   Another balanced beginning. Good AG tone. Vocal crisp and a bit wet. Hello bass! Too much, and it's a pity, because everything else here is spot-on. I like the organ in the verse. Nice tone to the electric. More piano, please. Less bass. Harmonies are lush and full, and you know I like the repeat. Perfect ending, with the organ getting that last sustaining note.

25. mdifazio
   Doubled guitar almost works, but it's more of a distraction than an addition in the end. If something draws your attention away from the center of the song, then it shouldn't be there. The organ is a bit heavy. Bass is MIA. Nice tone in the guitars. More piano, please - we missed the Coldplay shiver. Where's the lushness in the harmony? Nice ending.

[slash5969]

Fiasco wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 14:24

Slash - Interesting choice with the no drums;               bass could have been more consistent without the drums there;               ehh... I don't know about the use of the harmonies;               good vocals.

Thanks. My main goal with this IMP was to improve my
previously-somewhat-less-than-stellar vocal treatments.

[slash5969]

ATOR wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 10:04

Slash5969 I like the bonedry vocal as if he's 1 feet before me. The holding back feeling creates a great tension. Aaah, you weren't holding  back, this is already it, that's too bad. I like what you did with the choir just not where and how loud you did it.

What did you think I was holding back? Tension is good - it's the lack of release that causes trouble.

M Carter wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 13:45

Slash - The lack of drums doesn't work for me.  It makes it have kind of a 'demo' quality.  the elements you DID use, sound really great though.  I'm glad to see that someone else used the backgrounds more than once, although harmonically the placement is a little weird sometimes.

Thanks! I probably would have used the drums had I been a more competent mix engineer. I simply couldn't make them sound better IN the song than they did OUT. Ha!

[slash5969]

osumosan wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 09:23

Slash 5969 - Acoustic is a bit over de-noised and sounds constricted. Where's the line buzz coming from? The mix is very gentle, so the really close intimate vox seems out of place, although conceptually, that would be hard to predict. All of a sudden I find myself wishing that somebody had added pseudo vinyl noise to this. Probably because this treatment seems very 70s to me.

Thank you for the comments. I heard the song as very gentle, so I'm pleased to learn that I managed to translate that to some degree. I'm not sure what you mean by being "conceptually hard to predict" - perhaps because my 70's are pretty much a blur at this point. *grin*

Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 04:25

Slash5969 Interesting start with very dry vocal, guitar and a touch of bass. Not sure I like the electric sounds. Too dry, thin and back. To work that far back, I'd make them less bright and add some ambience. I miss the pulse of the drums. extra harmonies don't fit for me.

I wish I'd worked more on the tone of the electric guitar. It's the one thing I heard in other mixes that I really wished I'd done a better job of myself.

[slash5969]

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 10:10

Slash – Like this so far. IMO a longer verb would have been more suited. Sounds like a big bathroom. Nice mids/strings going on in the bass, but it’s not enough to carry the thing without the drums. I like all of the other panning, but why so mono on the main acoustic? Your btb would have sounded great if it were edited. The only beat we get in here and it’s all f$#@ed up? Love the re-use of the BGV.

Thanks, Jason. I pretty much concur with these comments. I tried several reverbs, and the one I went with was very much a "lesser of all the evils" solution - I never found the right one.

As far as the acoustic, I used all the tracks. I'm sure I had them panned hard right and hard left as well as right down the middle. If it strikes you as mono, then it would have to been a volume issue on the panned tracks. My monitoring situation isn't ideal, and lots of times I just monkey around with stuff until it doesn't sound real bad anymore and then I quit and call it good.

Prolly what happened here, too.

[mdifazio]

Here are my notes. Please take these with a grain of salt as my experience level is quite low and monitor situation is suboptimal.

JHall  Great job denoising and the vocal treatment in general.  Drums in the left channel are hot on my monitors compared with the vocal.  I have no problem with the asymmetry, just the level.  Bass also a little hot.  Maybe just bring vocal up.  Guitar delay at 1:15 for my taste could have been more of an even meter feel.    Would have buried the beatbox.   At 2:20, looped acoustic too forward, would have liked more piano.   I thought the organ was a feature, think you disagreed.

GDixon  Nice balance up front.  Vocal delay a shade too noticeable in isolation.  Bass too loud on my system.  Organ autopan/rotor making me a little seasick.  Piano arps a little forward. Nice background vox.  Overall a strong mix.

Antman  Nice spread on the vocal.  Bass sits well.  Cabasa/clave could come down a smidge.  Lose the loops at the end.  Very nice job.  

Slash  Vocal a little loud, edits noticable.  Would have liked some kind of space on the vocal.  Like the bass attack.  Don’t mind lack of drums.  I think beatbox would have benefitted from looping the bits that worked as a general comment for all.  Clever edit on the background vox, would have dropped the last set.  Nice finish.

CIlett  Mono.  Like the vocals except could have dealt with noise.  Drums good, just a little loud.  Guitar lead lacking.  Beatbox sybillance killing me.

ATOR  Vocal too wet.  Nice rhythm edits.  Disagree with guitar distortion.  Guitar lead too much delay.  Good use of beatbox.  Nice build to 2:50.  Clave too loud.  

Teleric  Vocal draws me in.   Like the bass/drum levels.  Clave a little hot.  I really like this one.

DFarris  Bass too hot on my end.  Vocal needs compromise between 1st/2nd verse re extemes of space.  That organ just kills!  Nice background.  I wasn’t hearing a fade on this one.

Singsing  Cool pad up front.  Bass too loud here.  Piano drops weren’t working.  Guitar lead treatment needed but overdone.  Good use of beatbox.  Clave too loud/dry.  Background a little much.  Abrupt ending.

Osumosan  Nice acoustic guitars.  Feels like vocals pulled back at 0:35.  Drums a little forward.  Nice organ.  Lose the acoustic loops.  Good job.

GThompson  Noise.  Like the space on the acoustic, vocal too wet.  Good bass level.  Piano drowning in verb.  Good levels just dry the whole thing out.  

MGT  Nice opening.  Really like the drum/bass balance.  Like the trem on the solo (obviously), the panning distracts a little.  Piano too wet.  Agree with the beatbox and background levels.  Nice finish.  Good job on that one.

Rankus  Totally different concept from what I imagined but very well mixed.  Would fade the drums at the end.  I’m wondering if a little “mastering verb” would glue this.  Really liked it.

Hudsv  I’d like the organ to be dryer and cut thru more.  Beatbox a little prominent.  Wasn’t hearing a fade.  Good overall.

MGA  Noise.  Drums a little uneven.  I like where you have the vocal.  Lose the acoustic loops at end.

dconstruction  Vocal too wet.  Sybillance and mouth noises.  Drums a little loud.  Distortion on beatbox too much.  Clave too loud.  Funny how you disliked the guitar lead, which I liked/interpreted as sensitive playing.  Last 0:30 just too much happening.  

Strummer  Disagree with the opening.  Drums too loud, vocal too soft.  Bass good.   Cabasa too loud.  Good beatbox level.  Good piano level.  Lose the acoustic loops and bkg vox at end.

Fiascov  Nice attention to the vocal.  Bass a little loud on my monitors.  Like the guitar FX.  Like the organ.  

TheDan  Great til the guitar lead which is a little heavy handed.  Would have liked organ a little higher.  Overall I think my favorite straight ahead mix.

SSelfridge  Like the acoustics panned.  Bass a little heavy on my system.  Really like how the drums are sitting.  Clave and piano a little hot.  

Firefly  Like the bass level, the delayed drum entry.  Nice vocal treatment, maybe a little too much verb.  Guitar lead come forward.  Nice attention to the beatbox.   Very nice overall.

Soutboundloco  First I thought 44/48 issue, so I tried to upconvert, then realized it was repitched at a slower tempo.  Ear fatigue prevents me from giving useful feedback here.  On a side note, the vocals sounded kinda cool pitched up 10%.  Vocals might have sounded cool with shifted formants but not transposed/slowed.  

Maxim  Would have saved the guitar lead for midsong.  Don’t agree with the background arrangement.  Good balance of vocal/drums/bass.  Cool trem on the organ.    Nice filter sweeps!  Nice edits eguitar at end.  

MCarter  Vocal “T”s could be tamed.  Bass a bit heavy on my system.  Good overall balance otherwise.  Don’t agree with the background repeats.

MDifazio  This is mine.  I pitched this to myself as Norah Jones meets Philip Glass although someone mentioned Cocteau Twins and I could see that influence with the vocal intelligibility and ethereal arrangement.  [Can we get a lyric sheet?]  Agree the vocal is too forward.  Too afraid of the bass, which maybe speaks to my monitors.  I only used the looped guitars every other measure, interspersed with the beat box which was heavily deessed and lowpassed.  For the end, I faded the drums and brought back the swirling piano/organ.  Had to loop the noise tail on the organ track til fadeout.  As for the delays, I wanted to emphasize the repetitive arped feel throughout.  Maybe overdid it.  

Thanks dconstruction for the tracks and everyone else for the time/feedback.

[J-Texas]

slash5969 wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 21:25

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 10:10 Slash – Like this so far. IMO a longer verb would have been more suited. Sounds like a big bathroom. Nice mids/strings going on in the bass, but it’s not enough to carry the thing without the drums. I like all of the other panning, but why so mono on the main acoustic? Your btb would have sounded great if it were edited. The only beat we get in here and it’s all f$#@ed up? Love the re-use of the BGV. Thanks, Jason. I pretty much concur with these comments. I tried several reverbs, and the one I went with was very much a "lesser of all the evils" solution - I never found the right one. As far as the acoustic, I used all the tracks. I'm sure I had them panned hard right and hard left as well as right down the middle. If it strikes you as mono, then it would have to been a volume issue on the panned tracks. My monitoring situation isn't ideal, and lots of times I just monkey around with stuff until it doesn't sound real bad anymore and then I quit and call it good. Prolly what happened here, too.

I'd be willing to bet that you just mixed a little too much of the mid in the mid/side. You can really control the space by how much of that mic you use. Go back in and bring it down for giggles.

[J-Texas]

Greg Dixon wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 20:10

J-Texas wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 01:10   Greg Dixon – Acoustic is weird leaning on the left side like that. Love hearing the bass strings against the click of the kick. Organ panning is freaking me out. I like spreading things out on this one, but I chose different panning. I think it was more of a necessity than personal opinion though. Nice piano, but too loud for me. That btb is so off beat that it is really distracting spread out. Very cool ending with the organ. Mmm interesting. The acoustic wasn't panned at all. I just used the m/s straight up the middle. I worked hard on the bass and drums in an attempt to make them almost one. I thought the beatbox was ok (obviously), but it was hard finding a place where they felt ok. Agree the piano is up a bit too much. I used the Voce Spin (Leslie) plug-in over the organ, as it just seemed to back a bit of movement.

I listened again. MOST of the mixes have the acoustic leaning to one side. It's the way it was recorded. Check it out. Tell me your take on it.

[J-Texas]

I don't know how some of you escaped my coils!

Moowhaha ha ha ha.  



Sing Sing - Dreamy. I like the added use of the organ and piano. After the electric lead thing (which I didn't like the distortion on   ) the levels on the organ gets loud. Then piano loud and soft. It's very noticeable. The pops in the btb section are bugging me. I don't think they're edits, it sounds more like a crazy untamed frequency spike. All-in-all... the coolest arrangement. It's interesting all the way through.

MGAudio - Missing some lows in the acoustic. It sounds about 1 inch thick. I'm VERY good with having highs in the kick/drums... but not at the expense of it not gelling with the bass guitar or sounding like the locusts are coming before a drum is hit. Pretty sparse sounding without both drum parts too. There's more bass in a couple of the btb parts than in the kick or bass guitar. Once it sounded like a fart. LOL! Were you wanting the mastering engineer to fade for you?  

Southboundloco - What? I'm stumped. Someone just turned on a box fan in the studio too. This is time stretched to the max. I like all of the panning and the eq sounds cool. I have to stop it now... very unnatural.

MDifazio - Seemed like over the top (unnecessary  
) use of delay and verb on this. I like the interesting electric though. Missing the meat in this one. Nice piano. Nice vocal treatment. The readability really comes through. I don't struggle to understand the lyrics. BTB is lost (in or out... you pick one! LOL). Nice ending!


ANYONE ELSE? Sorry guys. It must have been the sun or this hideous pineapple wine I had.

[Strummer]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment on the mixes, especially mine.

I listened to this yesterday while driving and I do hear things a lot of you have commented on. If I could find a way to remove myself and my ears while I'm working on something I'd be better at picking up mistakes.

The most heartening thing to me is that no one really killed me on the bass and drum sound. I think there was one negative comment, that's okay, they're not perfect, I know.

I worked the most on those in this mix and there's things I'd do differently now, but that's part of the learning curve, eh? Probably why I mixed them too loud, lol!

[rankus]

I want to thank everyone who commented on my mix as well.  Unfortunately I will not be able to return the favor this round.  The studio is keeping me busy and my mom is pretty ill, so it's family first.

I will comment on my mix for interst sake.

I kept this song very dry and the vocals up in your face because I felt this is an intimate song, such as the singer whispering in his girls ear. Lots of reverb just pushes the listener away from the band.  

Also being a very WELL WRITTEN song I did not feel that it needed all the extra embellishments... Hence the dry sparse mix.

Someone did comment that it would be nice if something (instrumentation) came in about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through as things got boring in my mix by then.  I agree completely and if it were within the rules I would have overdubbed a tambo and an organ track (the organ in the files was not what I would want being introduced at that point).

Also, I felt the song was too long... another reason it became boring at that point.  I would have used my mix as a pre-production staring point and presented it to the artist as such, and hopefully we would have agreed to chop almost a minute and work on instrumental arrangements.

This is not to comment on the original recordists interpetation by any stretch.  I understand what can be done within a certain budget and time constraint and I am all for seeing where the moment takes us...

I hope these comments are found useful and that this artist comes back into your studio to re-cut this track... It is pretty damned good.  While I was mixing it I had at least three people ask if they could have a copy because they dug the tune... (I never release this IMP material BTW)

Thanks J and everyone for another fun mix-off!

[loudsongsinc]

I'm very late to the party, so pardon me please. . .


I have just stumbled onto your cool little corner of the internet, here, and it's just what I've been looking for.

I've uploaded my version of IMP18 and I would love some feedback if you have 5 minutes to waste.

I did my mix before I listened to any others so I wouldn't be influenced.  After listening to everyone else's it seems I have gone for a little different vibe than most.

Thanks a million for this project!!