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Author Topic: IMP18 discussion  (Read 10018 times)

Antman

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2008, 10:38:11 am »

Okay this is weird, people keep commenting on things I didn't do in my mix...
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ATOR

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2008, 11:47:52 am »

@Antman
Somehow one side of your vocal got delayed. Hence the doubling/chorusing.

@Fiasco
I now notice I have a lot of 'boomy bass' in my comments and my mix is commented to have too little bass so go figure. Always take comments with a grain of salt  Smile
Basstraps are on top of my shopping list, I finished designing them last week.

@Huds
I hadn't noticed while mixing that the acoustics straight 8ths timing shifted to a heavy swing feel in the chorus. It was only in your mix that I heard it so I thought you had shifted it, my bad.

@Mdifazio
Weird, now it plays normal over here too. It's a crazy world. Sorry mate.
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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2008, 04:36:40 pm »

ATOR wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 11:47



@Fiasco
I now notice I have a lot of 'boomy bass' in my comments and my mix is commented to have too little bass so go figure. Always take comments with a grain of salt  Smile
Basstraps are on top of my shopping list, I finished designing them last week.



No salt needed brother, I took no offense. Smile
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Philip

fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP Impressions
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2008, 04:41:58 pm »

osumosan wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 10:23



Fiasco - This seems like the perfect amount of wet for the vox. The mix has a nice space and fills up the sonic spectrum in a very satisfying way. Strange choices at the end.




Thanks osumosan.
Strange good or strange bad?
I felt the song should return to more of an intimate feel, like the beginning.
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Philip

j.hall

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2008, 05:02:27 pm »

Antman wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 09:38

Okay this is weird, people keep commenting on things I didn't do in my mix...


didn't do?  or can't hear?  big difference.

i'll have a listen soon.  working a ton and traveling to work.  leaves little computer time.

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fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2008, 07:08:07 pm »

O.K. I think I've listened to them all!

Strummer - Interesting choice of the harmonies;
vocals seemed a touch too low;
drums could have been tightened up;
good balance between the guitars;
shaker a bit distracting;
2nd harmony section too strong.

martthie 08 - Good clarity on the bass, however needed low end;
good balance overall;
I thought the mix could use a little less "volume".

mdifazio - Delay on the acoustic... mmm... I don't know;
the drums and bass were sitting kind of quiet;
liked the tremelo(?) on the electric git;
could use more dynamics where the song wants to get louder.

southboundloco - Well, I guess you figured out this one. Very Happy

Greg Thompson - I thought the drums could be up a touch;
the vocals slightly overpowered the rest of the tune;
from the beatbox section on, the arrangement seemed to lose power;
the whole thing, to me, was over effected.

MGAudio - On the whole this mix was kind of thin;
some noticeable hiss;
uneven harmony section;
I still thought it was a pretty balanced mix.

osumosan - I think a little LF roll off on the vocals would have been nice;
the bass drum a bit hot;
some of the extra instrumentation, E.G., 2nd A.G. seemed a bit spikey;
very good build up from beginning to end.

TheDan - Very hissy before the intro;
the instruments were overpowering the vocals at times;
I liked the treatment of the elec git "solo";
the drums sounded a little loose and falamy.

dconstruction - Vox effects detract from what I thought a great performance;
good sparse arrangement through beginning, nice build up towards end;
nice harmony section;
I liked the beatbox where it is (supposed to be?).

Thanks for letting me work on the song.

P.S. If I missed anyone, let me know.
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Philip

Strummer

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2008, 09:53:30 pm »

I'm really enjoying reading and listening. I'm not going to attempt to comment on all the mixes, but when I get back home in a week or so I'll post about the ones I think I understand.

I got carried away with the BGvox, maybe it's because "Smile" is in my truck CD changer. I was taken with those lovely harmonies, and they are way too loud in the middle.

Thanks to the band, dconstruction, j, and all of you for making this IMP possible.

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Greg Dixon

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2008, 05:25:46 am »

OK here are my reviews. I dropped the folder of mixes into iTunes and set it up so I could only see the track numbers, not names. I then added the names afterwards.

Had to do a bit of detective work to find the names on quite a few of them, including some regulars, which was very annoying.

dconstruction. Alternative. Interesting idea, dry band, with vocal at the end of a tunnel. Reverb is a bit metallic. Not sure it works for so long. Drums and bass sound alright, although a bit indistinct. Most of the other instruments sound a bit thin.

Antman. A bit bass and drums light for me. Main acoustic might be a touch bright. Electric parts don't quite sit with the rest of it. Lack of ambience in general is making the parts feel a bit separate. Harmonies are nice. Good sounds, but disjointed.

Firefly. Nice warm acoustic and vocal start. Very inviting. Understated drums and bass. Think I'd like more of them at some point. Like the beatbox panning. Drum pulse at end is good.

Scott Selfridge. Wow the vocal seems to be in a vacuum, like it's actually had ambience removed.  Band very subdued. Like the nasal guitar in the bridge. Main problem with this is it doesn't quite hold my interest. Too much flange on harmonies for me. Instrument panning creates movement, but all a bit light.

ATOR Loud mix. Interesting drums. Wasn't expecting anyone to get a scooped mid kick out of this. Electric guitar sounds are interesting, but a bit thin and scratchy for me. I like that the drums keep pumping through the track to give it a center otherwise it would be a bit of a mess. Extra harmony section is cool.

Maxim. Guitar and voice are fine. Drums sound good. Another understated mix. Extra harmonies seem to work first time. Not sure about before the bridge. Edited lead at end doesn't work. Otherwise pretty good.

Osumosan Vocal seems a bit dull. He sounds a bit bored.  Almost no bass, which I miss. This one is almost a vocal/percussion version. OK the bridge guitar just came in to give it a lift. Beatbox solo! Interesting arrangement. Kill the guitars at the end. It needs a bit of ambience in the first half.

Slash5969 Interesting start with very dry vocal, guitar and a touch of bass. Not sure I like the electric sounds. Too dry, thin and back. To work that far back, I'd make them less bright and add some ambience. I miss the pulse of the drums. extra harmonies don't fit for me.

Strummer Harmonies at start would have worked better if they hadn't faded out. They're also way too loud for when the rest of the track starts. Sounds like a mistake.  Vocal could be louder. The drums lack bottom, but seem to work. Shaker is out of proportion with the rest of the track. End harmonies too loud too. Very end harmonies ok volume. Overall the blend doesn't quite work.

Chris Ilett Bottom end is a bit overwhelming and indistinct.  Is the mix completely mono? I keep waiting for it to open up. A bit of stereo electrics.  Voice is fine.

Daniel Farris Nice start. Not sure about the long reverb on the vocal when the band enters. I'd leave the reverb until the chorus and back it off quite a bit. Electric is too dry and bright for the rest of the track. Vocal could be louder. It's become a bit of a textural wash, with everything else. Overall I like the sounds, just doesn't really hold my attention.

J.Hall Vocal and acoustic sound good, but disappear a bit when the drums and bass enter. Interesting idea with the drums, having them spread left to right as if echoing in a large room. Not sure it totally works. Drums have meat and definition. Bass level is good. If the vocal was louder, I think this one would work much better.

Greg Thompson Reverb on acoustic is too long and cluttered. Whisper quiet drums.  The vocal needs to come down or have something else up with it, so it's not there by itself.

Greg Dixon Nice spread on the nylon string.  Understated vocal delay works well. Almost dry with a hint of ambience. Drums and bass sound good and work well together. Transition to bridge more subtle than most. Vocal could come up a tad in the bridge. Piano sounds fine. Beatbox works well.

Huds Very upfront acoustic hiding everything else. I think if the vocal was louder and the acoustic down, this mix would work ok. Beatbox doesn't sit with the rest of the instruments. As it is, it just needs to be better balanced.

mdifazio Interesting delay on the acoustic. Works for most of it. Not sure about the dry electric lead part? Whole thing is very dreamy. The vocal sounds good, which keeps the mix from getting lost like some of the other atmospheric mixes, although it's too loud.  Interesting use of piano at end.

MGA Acoustic a bit thin at the start, with dry vocal. Pity about the hiss coming in during the verse. Not much low end. Kick is a bit bright and thin. This mix has some good ideas, they just don't work that well together.

MGT Very midrangy drums and bass. Voice sounds good at the start, but could come up in volume a bit as the mix gets fuller. Another mix where it's mainly acoustic guitar and voice. Overall a mix is washy and indistinct.

Sing Sing Late night mood mix. Another atmospheric treatment, with the vocalist up close. I like the organ being there in the first verse. Don't like the piano coming in earlier though. Just doesn't fit musically. I think it needs some bass drum with the bass.

southboundloco Time stretched or wrong sample rate? Don't like it. Real dirge. I assume this is a mistake.

Teleric Nice sounds. Lacks a bit of bottom and could use a bit more ambience to help the parts sit together. Works ok as is, but could be better with some more dynamic movement. A bit static.

Fiasco Where are the mids? Wispy top and fat, round, slightly lumpy bottom. Some good ideas, they just don't quite fit together.

theDan Acoustic sounds good, but the voice seems a bit boxy. I like the drums, but would like more bass to go with them.  Pity about the hiss in the bridge. Beatboxing seems separate from the rest of the instruments. Is that hiss at the end from reverb on the shaker?

M. Carter Overall this seems bottom heavy, which masks the rest of it. Sounds are ok, just not balanced well. Vocal appears to be over compressed. Extra harmonies don't work harmonically.

Rankus Interesting having the drums and bass creep in. Dry, which works, but I think a bit of reverb or delay might help the depth.  The up front dry acoustic and vocal gets to be a bit much by halfway through. Good ideas, I just wanted a bit of relief somewhere.

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Antman

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2008, 12:33:56 pm »

Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 17:25


Antman. A bit bass and drums light for me. Main acoustic might be a touch bright. Electric parts don't quite sit with the rest of it. Lack of ambience in general is making the parts feel a bit separate. Harmonies are nice. Good sounds, but disjointed.



Thanks heaps.

I've gotten loads of very interesting and useful feedback thus far, thanks everyone, I'll try and make the time tomorrow to get through everyone's mixes, but I'm starting to think I really need to hurry up and treat my new room. (Not to make excuses, but just a warning to take my feedback with that in mind)
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Chris Ilett

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2008, 12:43:39 pm »

Greg

Thanks for your comments (and to all who commented). Mix certainly isn't meant to be mono, so I'll just say that something seriously fucked up along the way.

Apart from the drums needing some serious low-end attention - I missed some of the tracks from my final mix. There was definitely - at some point - a stereo mix. I've not had the chance to backtrack to see what happened yet, or even open up the session.

Still need to get back here and pay into the feedback of everyone elses mixes, so I look forward to that.

Cheers all.

osumosan

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Re: IMP Impressions
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2008, 09:19:44 pm »

Fiasco wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 16:41

Strange good or strange bad?
I felt the song should return to more of an intimate feel, like the beginning.



I didn't understand the choices. The reamped electric guitar doesn't really do the intimacy thing for me and the flanging on the vox seems to come out of nowhere. I totally hate the overused word "pristine," but that's the quality of the vox that gives us intimacy. The effect just takes us away from that -- (in my opinion, obviously).

Thanks for your comments, too. I really enjoyed the lowend on the vocals myself and wanted a sparkly accompaniment. Maybe I overshot it, but it sounds okay on my monitoring.
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J-Texas

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Re: IMP Impressions
« Reply #71 on: June 18, 2008, 11:10:26 am »

Back from the beach! It was great.

I did a mix before I left and put it on the iphone. Should have sent it to J. or put it on my site or something!  Embarassed  I dind't get it pulled over. If anyone wants to hear it, PM me and I'll send you a link.

I had plenty of time on my hands, so I checked out all of the mixes.

Here you go:


J.Hall – Drums L and R… hard! Seems like a lot going on in the low end. Muddy. I like the delay on the electric guitar. Were the acoustics that far behind the beat? Love that btb treatment. Piano very natural… I like a lot. Love the ending that way. We took a similar approach.

Greg Dixon – Acoustic is weird leaning on the left side like that. Love hearing the bass strings against the click of the kick. Organ panning is freaking me out. I like spreading things out on this one, but I chose different panning. I think it was more of a necessity than personal opinion though. Nice piano, but too loud for me. That btb is so off beat that it is really distracting spread out. Very cool ending with the organ.

Antman – Lot of compression on acoustic. Weird vocal spread. I miss the drums as driving force. Sounds like people jamming and someone’s drunk friend won’t get off the drums. Oh… another drunk friend trying to btb! Take that junk off the vocal and treat the kick like it belongs and you’ve got something. Acoustic stuff sounds good.

Slash – Like this so far. IMO a longer verb would have been more suited. Sounds like a big bathroom. Nice mids/strings going on in the bass, but it’s not enough to carry the thing without the drums. I like all of the other panning, but why so mono on the main acoustic? Your btb would have sounded great if it were edited. The only beat we get in here and it’s all f$#@ed up? Love the re-use of the BGV.

Chris Ilett – I like that you didn’t EQ out  the bass in the vox and acoustic. I would like more spread, less elephant bass, longer verb. Mono is cool… but not today. I like making one kick more dominant. Cool sparseness on the pre-btb part, but it would have been nice to have all of the textures there when the btb came in. No BGV? The coolest sounding thing in the song for me. Dirty ending man.

ATOR – Man, I always know I’ll get something extra from you! I like the verb on the vox. I like the things that you’ve done to the song, but wished that you would have gone balls-out on the sounds. Hammered electric, set the sensitivity on the trigger so the kicks were all max. samples, kind of NIN Pretty Hate Machine sounding I guess is the what I want to say. Love the filter before the piano part. Cool piano sound. I like.

Teleric – The best to my ears so far. Nice panning choices. I like it pretty dry. Spoke too soon on the panning. Would love the lead acoustic spread out. Don’t like the piano and organ humping each other. Nice vox all around. Love the re-use of the BGV. Needs more meat in the bottom I think. 50-80hz?

Daniel Farris – Very nice and even EQ on the acoustic. WOWwee… reverb! If that was only done to the organ it would have been nice for me. Like the vocal delay. Like the panning. Low pass on organ? Hair more btb? To my ears, this track didn’t need the kind of space that some people put to it. I like this.

Osumosan – Incredible amount of 2 buss compression. Very slow release… it’s freking me out. I can’t concentrate on what going on. It’s like the ocean that I’m looking at. Back and forth, coming and going. I’m pretty certain that you have nice things going on with good panning. Turn that thing all the way off man. I’m not with the ending either.

Greg Thompson – OH. You’ve got me wet! YOWWY. Where’s the beef? Nice organ. Electric guitar is bothering me. Everything is too washed out for me. Cool piano, yet loud. Not sure about the weird flangey BGVs. Love the ending. Intimate.

Martthie 08 – Boomy. Crazy verb. Nice vox. Even different vocal verb? I like the mids in the bass and kick… but where’s the meat? To me, there’s no reason why an organ should sound bigger than a bass guitar or kick. Acoustic is getting annoying. Cool piano sound. Nice vox to BGV balance. This is getting out of hand to me.

Rankus – Well, at least the vocal filled up the hole in my right ear! LOL. I like the beat sort of sneaking up, but thought the bass might have done the same. Where’s my bass? I love the rhythm thing into the lead. Cool idea. I didn’t miss the other guitar there. Another re-hash of the BGV. Cool. Interesting ending.

Huds – If you don’t compress the lead vocal… how about some automation? If you want to hear the bass go down the street and take a right. Cheesy reverse on the lead guitar (for my taste). No beat. Nice spread and balance on the acoustics in the “bridge”. Like the btb. Something that noticeable, to me, needs to be more on beat. Where’d it go? Fade? Delay last beat? Did it just give up?

Dconstruction – What the hell? I don’t like that vocal treatment. Like the driving force of the kick. Organ seems kind of lifeless. Best use of the m/s on the acoustic. Great piano sound… perfect for this. Lots of low-mids on the BGV. Strange. Perfect ending.

Strummer – Refreshing. I wanted more. Lead vox too low compared to what just happened. All of that one thing in the left side? Why? There’s shaker and there’s an acoustic. Let’s get the band to join one another in the same space. The whole thing is very distant to me.

Fiasco – A lot of extra high freqs on the vox. Lots of extra compression on the rhythm stuff. Rock stadium verb on the electric? Another no-lead acoustic… I like that. Balance is all crazy IMO. A few people really tried to change up these sounds. I think they were good to start with. Darth Vader vox at the end! Smooth ending.

The Dan – I wanted to love this. Balance is a bit off for me. Too big on the lead. Like a guy with a spotlight playing in the moonlight. Strange. Did you use the BGV like a pad (or have I heard this too many times)? I like it whatever it is. The lead guy in the moonlight just put down his guitar and picked up a shaker! Great ending. I like this.

IMDrecording – I’m a huge fan of pan. A guy that sounds like he’s singing and playing a guitar doesn’t need center vox and hard left guitar… IMO. My first instinct was to also put that organ in the center, but I thought it stepped all over the vocal. Nice piano, a little loud. I think this panning in the “bridge” just exploited that the rhythm was all f’ed up.Flange BGV? Great ending!

Firefly – I like! Damn! Where’s the rhythm? Ok here it comes. Tasty use of the delay in the lead electric to cover up the sparseness and sloppiness. Another rhythm as lead… I like. Cool filtered delay on vox in the btb section. Like the panning. More effective on beat. Very cool. Acoustic rhythm is really too loud throughout compared to everything else. Good ending.

Maxim – Nice start! By far my favorite. Nice panning. WOW! BGVs so early? COOL. Hate that squirrely lead sound though. I like the mids in the bass and kick. The delay on the vox… not my favorite. In this mix, either more or not at all (probably not at all). Don’t kill me with the BGV! That was one place that it wasn’t necessary to me. Whoa!! Who called the mothership? Could have held on to that vocal delay till right there at the end. Cool ending.

MCarter – Why don’t I mind this crazy verb? Quick delay on the guitar? Almost like a rockabilly guitar. I like it… it fits. This sounds really finished to me. The ”best with what you got” mix. I wanted more btb! Everything is right in front of my face. I likey. WHOA dude… very dissonant chord with the BGV there. Don’t know if I hate it. Unexpected for sure. Fits great with that crazy organ chord at the end though, makes it sound intentional. Love the AM radio ending. I have 2 favorites for different reasons.


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Chris Ilett

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #72 on: June 18, 2008, 03:16:53 pm »

Thanks a lot for that J. Hope you had fun!

fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP Impressions
« Reply #73 on: June 18, 2008, 04:09:08 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 11:10

Back from the beach! It was great.


Fiasco – A lot of extra high freqs on the vox. Lots of extra compression on the rhythm stuff. Rock stadium verb on the electric? Another no-lead acoustic… I like that. Balance is all crazy IMO. A few people really tried to change up these sounds. I think they were good to start with. Darth Vader vox at the end! Smooth ending.




Thanks for the critique!
You are correct about the vocals... damn it. Tried to give it a little sparkle, and spilled the whole bottle.
I will have to double check but I don't think I used compression at all on the drums or perc.
I will come back and correct myself if wrong.
I used the same verb on the elec as the vocal, I guess it does stand out more.
Thanks again.
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Philip

fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

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Re: IMP18 discussion
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2008, 04:13:33 pm »

Greg Dixon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 05:25


Fiasco Where are the mids?


I guess I wiped them up when I spilled that bottle of highs on the vocals. Smile

I appreciate the critique.
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Philip
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