R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96  (Read 5908 times)

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« on: May 30, 2004, 02:05:33 pm »

Hi friends,
I am an old user of the o2R V2+ Pt Mix PLus.
In terms of sound quality and features, will I have a big leap if I upgrade my 02R V2to the 02R 96k, keeping my Mix Plus system? Can we finally trust in those digital compressors?
Would it be better to skip the board upgrade and go directly to PT HD Accel2?
No budget to upgrade everything.
Thanks for any info
Nice week
Razz
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao

Daniel_Dettwiler

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2004, 07:02:06 pm »

Quote:

Would it be better to skip the board upgrade and go directly to PT HD Accel2?
No budget to upgrade everything.



If you don't want the board for economic reason then definitly a big big yes! Forget the board and go to PT Accel, get Oxford EQ's (or GML) and Oxford Comp and you are way above the quality you'd ever get out of the Yammie Desk... (imo)

Daniel
Logged
------------------
Daniel Dettwiler
www.ideeundklang.com
www.volkshausstudio.com

George Massenburg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2004, 09:15:46 pm »

I don't think there's any reason to buy an Yamaha-anything anymore.  They cherry-pick ideas, they do not respond to their customers (everything comes out of Japan...every decision, every product) and they do not stick with their products.

From what I know about the O2R96, I barely know where to start; their interface is egregiously inaccurate and slow,   How about that?

Sorry I'm just not a Yamaha lover anymore.

George
Logged

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2004, 12:34:21 am »

OK. .Thanks
You are right, George. Here in Brazil Yamaha TOTALLY SUCKS. My 02R has the enter button damaged, I have been waiting over 6 months for the parts. Pretty good tech support indeed..
However, it interfaces pretty easily with PT.
Nice week
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao

Zoesch

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 269
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2004, 01:18:10 am »

Alecio...

1)What improvement would you gain from upgrading to an O2R96 if your DAW is limited to 48KHz? (Possible answers: Improved EQ algorithms, improved pres, future proof?)
2)What improvements would you gain from upgrading your DAW if your console is limited to 48KHz? (Possible answers: Improved summing, ADC, improved environment, future proof)

Both upgrades in themselves are pretty useless...

I assume you are using your 02R to supply pres and monitoring... so with that in mind, what about moving to HD Accel cards, keeping your current I/O and O2R until you can upgrade the I/O to a good third party system (I personally wouldn't waste a dime on the HD I/O boxes) and maybe a better console (Analog or digital)?
Logged
It has always been Ringo's fault

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2004, 12:30:28 pm »

Thanks Zoesch,

in fact 96k is not that really important to me at least in the folowing couple of years.
I was thinking of the 02r 96k so as to have a better a/d and multiple mic pres, once in a while I record big stuff like orchestras and horn bands, yes all in a limited budget. Sad
. I think that if I keep the old 02R v2 and just change the digi stuff, flavours will be the same. To me it seems the a/d is the weakest point in my chain at present moment. I use some Sebatron mic pres, which are much better than the old 02R pres.
Any other opinions?
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao

Chris Nicolaides

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2004, 06:47:12 am »

Hi guys,

Well, I remember being the one that triggered a very unflattering response by George to the old Yamaha 02R about 3 years ago on the musicplayer forum! I had made the switch from an 02R to a Mackie d8b and noticed a significant improvement sonically as well as ergonomically. However, after too many unresolved issues (bugs) with the d8b, and questionable build quality, I made the switch, with some trepidation, back to the Yamaha camp with the small DM1000.

Ergonomically, I miss the d8b, but sonically, Yamaha have made a BIG improvement, especially the converters and Mic Pres. When I played an old mix through the DM1000, it sounded so different, and then I realised I was hearing details that were inaudible on the d8b due to its poor D/A converters, which is why many users bought Benchmark DACs!

I was almost going to go back to a small analogue mixer, but I'm glad I chose the DM1000. To get converters/mic pres of this quality along with all the other functions would have cost a lot more had I gone a different route. Interestingly, I was in Japan last Xmas at a friend's studio who uses ProTools HD with a Yamaha 02R 96. I was shocked that he was going analogue out of PT into the 02R! I asked him why, and he said he didn't trust using ADAT/TDIF!!

In A/B tests he said he could not tell the difference between the all digital path and the analogue one. He works at 96K and all I can say is that I have never heard Yamaha NS10s sound so good! He also had a nice Manley Mic Pre and reckoned there was also little difference between that and the 02R's pres! It certainly made me feel confident about my DM1000 purchase.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I think Yamaha have made big improvements to their new range of mixers sonically, although getting around them is still a pain!

Chris Nicolaides
Logged

George Massenburg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2004, 11:22:36 am »

Glad you're happy with the DM1000.  One of my best friends is mixing surround on one, and is getting along well.

My objection stands, though.  Yamaha still has much to do to demonstrate their committment to this as a product, as compared with a "one-off, sell as many as we possibly can, then pull support".  By the way, Mackie was no better with the d8b - they left the product and their customers with alot of empty promises.

Glad it's working out.

George
Logged

Chris Nicolaides

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2004, 11:40:34 am »

Hi George,

I'm sure you're right about Yamaha support etc, but I now have a mixer that is not very expensive and performs well. It just works, unlike the damn d8b where I found myself spending more time on the damn user forum than making music! I am glad I finally got away from Mackie's 'Empty promises', although I do miss your great EQ plug-in!!

It'll be interesting to see if Yamaha's new plug-ins for the current mixers are any good, and for how long they will support them. Time will tell...

Thanks,

Chris Nicolaides

Logged

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2004, 02:59:38 pm »

Axiamusic, was your friend recording from the 02R 96 to PT digitally with an MY8At(48k/44k limit) or with an MY16At ( 96k) card or with the analog outs of teh 02R doing the d/a 96k to the pt hd  interface?
I have seen a few people reporting the a/d improvEd a lot and it is a bonus that the board works as a fancy mouse for PT. ( No Icon, please!)
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao

Chris Nicolaides

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2004, 05:46:30 pm »

Hi Alecio,

My friend was not recording through the Yamaha when I was there. He was using the Manley pre into ProTools HD. He was then using ProTools analogue outputs into the 02R 96 along with other outboard gear and a PC running Gigastudio, also going in analogue. I think he ultimately had the Yamaha setup with 48 analogue inputs. As I already mentioned, I was very impressed with the sound of his system. I don't believe what I was hearing would sound significantly better if it was done in a top commercial studio. That's my ears though!

Chris Nicolaides

Logged

Bill Mueller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4502
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2004, 11:22:18 pm »

In my experience, the best company for continued support has been SSL. They upgraded the computer on the 4k for over 10 years.

However, even SSL created a 48k, 20 bit $600,000.00 console that doesn't punch. Sony has abandoned the Oxford. Tascam has orphaned I don't know how many products. I hope my MX2424 is not next. Digi abandons hardware as standards change.

In light of all that, Yamaha looks pretty good. My DM2000 sounds great, does not hickup and is expandable through the MY-8 and 16 cards. It did not take me a week to get comfortable and I know I still have a lot to learn about it. It controls PT, has surround mastering and monitoring facilities and 5.1, high quality reverb. It does 96k/24bit on all channels and does not make heat. I can carry it up a flight of stairs and control 72 mic pres  with it. The bug fix list is laughably tiny. Yamaha has brought out a series of software upgrades that actually compliment and expand the machine instead of fixing problems that should have been resolved before it was released (like other companies we know).

I'm ok with it.

Best Regards,

Bill
Logged
"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2004, 01:23:24 am »

It is interesting how people change their minds quickly...lol
I remember watching EQ and  Mix magazines between 1996/1999. Lots of pro rec facilities had at least two 02Rs.
And suddenly, a few years later, the board became brittle, mic pres methalic and the only way to achive a decent sound is  thru a stellar priced mic pre or going with PT HD Accell...
Seems Elliot S. uses Nuendo + DM2000... cool also!
Today I receieved a top platinum brazilian producer and all he wanted to know was if we had Neumman mics and PT TDM.
Detail: Never heard about Audio Technica... Embarassed
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao

skiboy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: Advise from "serious proes" regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2004, 11:41:25 am »

Hi Alecio, Bill, my regards,

I can wholeheartedly agree with everyone using a DM series with either analogue or digital inputs. Compared to Digi in-the-box MIX, it's like night and day. As I can read here, with a HD mix itb, the difference might not be so apparent. There may be none at all.
So coming back to "HD vs 02R96" - I/we/studio decided to skip the pains of upgrading to HD, OSX, et al. by getting a 02R96.
Our MIX TDM system is rock solid. Logic Pro and VST synths blaze away with minimal latency. ESB works fine, PT 5.1.3/OS9  never let us down.
So why meddle with that ? With our studio's  schedule, any downtime would be CATASTROPHIC.
And sure, we could have bought like maybe 16 channels of Millenia pres for the money, or we could have done a HD upgrade( sans MasterX5- not an option)
But, if my clients ask me how many inputs I can record at once - I say 24 minimum. The they ask if I have PT, sure...hahahahaha (HD or MIX; never makes any difference to them).
And then there are the monitor mixes - easy to do on a 02, a PITA in PT.
And I feel for the poor sods who bought their procontrols or other junk "controllers". I paid my dues with a Mackie HUI and "...quoth the Raven; NEVERMORE"

A proper mixing desk is a liberating experience after years of itb routing/mixing. Very Happy
And I'm not even touching surround mixing issues here.

Will the yammie desks face obsolesence before their time ?
Yes, because their processing power will be a fraction of new generation CPUs.
No, because of its 96k, 5.1, 24 pre/AD, infinite routing, moving faders and PT remote layer .

PS I'm not a "serious pro", I fancy myself as bit of a clown, really.

Piotr  K Laughing k Laughing sinski
Logged

Alécio Costa - Brazil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
Re: Advise from serious proes regarding PT + 02R 96
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2004, 01:09:33 am »

Many thanks skiboy,
I will probably do the very same move. My Mix plus/PT5.1.3 is doing pretty fine and stable. Fortunately, Version 2 of the 02R software has been released for some time and nice features are there..
BTW.. just sent ya a PM
Nice friday to all
Logged
Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up