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Author Topic: 'verb returns  (Read 4782 times)

otek

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'verb returns
« on: May 29, 2004, 09:17:19 PM »

I'm wondering what kind of mojo you guys work on your reverb returns?

If, for instance, you're working on a big, fat snare verb,
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John Ivan

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2004, 09:58:36 PM »

I don't quite work on the level that a lot of the folks around here do but, on rock and roll,I dig having a reverb just for snare and I always return to a channel and some times put a comp on the return. I of course like to have the option of eq on the channel. some times I use the same reverb on kick {this is pretty quiet} I have ducked verbs before but most of the time I don't. Predelay is something I spend time with a lot. I play around with multing the snare to busses for compression but also leave a snare channel alone and blend the compressed /EQ'ed reverb with the dry snare. I also mess around with doing strange and unusual things to the bottom mic. I just fuck around untill I find stuff.
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mwagener

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2004, 12:42:13 AM »

No big treatment on the returns actually, just a little eq to get rid of the noise on the old reverb units and a very slight gate to keep it quiet when nothing was playing. I DO eq the sends quite a bit (low pass), because high end on a snare/kick makes the older digital reverbs sound quite nasty, especially the hat bleed. In fact I turn down most everything above 1k on the top snare reverb send and then mix in a little bit of the snare bottom mic which is gated and keyed from the top mic.

On those 80s snares I sometimes triggered something like a Simmons or a gated 100Hz sine wave to put some low end underneath the snare and some of that was sent into verb as well. The box I mostly used was the 480L on a large hall setting. The predelay setting on the reverb trail AND the early reflections are very important, it keeps the snare from moving back into the room. The decay of the verb was mostly set to be gone when the next snare hit. It works great on ballads where the snare is on 2 and 4, wouldn't work well with the modern style of drumming.

otek

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2004, 12:06:38 AM »

mwagener wrote on Sun, 30 May 2004 06:42

It works great on ballads where the snare is on 2 and 4, wouldn't work well with the modern style of drumming.


Thanks Michael and Ivan for your tips!

It's interesting to see that a lot of the 80's drumming and drum sounds are coming back into style, and sometimes it's nice to pull those sounds out to see where it takes the song.

I would really appreciate more reverb return coolness, if anyone cares to chime in...

Ducking and compressing verbs, for instance. Any preferences?
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Fibes

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2004, 06:10:59 PM »

I'm glad Michael chimed in with some direction, to be honest unless we're talking wacky effects I've always been pretty shy of simulated verb. There's nothing like the real thing although it's always a challenge to try to fake it, it never happens...

Conservative is where i'm at with this shit, one area of my life I'm scared to be daring. I'm breaking out the gates this week Hahahahaha!

Michael is right, things are very different today with all of the overdone drumming and craziness going on.



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otek

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2004, 09:08:59 PM »

Fibes wrote on Tue, 01 June 2004 00:10

to be honest unless we're talking wacky effects I've always been pretty shy of simulated verb. There's nothing like the real thing...


It's two completely different sounds though... I must say I have also been rather uninspired by digital reverb for a long time, but I am sort of getting back into it now.... It does have its place, especially with someone like Michael who does it so well.

And it's not often you get to record in a room with a good, really long verb. I love my souped-up Roland 880 for those brighter-than-life snare washes!

Quote:

Michael is right, things are very different today with all of the overdone drumming and craziness going on.


Indeed. So when you get some really good fatback happening, it's tempting to bring out those sounds. I am doing a suitable session soon where I intend to go crazy with that stuff, just for the fun of it!

Some trivia: About seven years ago I did a recording in this old 40's movie theater. It was a very cool soundstage for the drums, plus it had curtains and pulleys left and right, so one could really tune the reverberation of the room. There was also a stairwell just outside, which we naturally miked. The attached sample is what a snare sounded like on that stage, with a bit of the stairwell blended in.
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Fibes

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2004, 10:54:51 AM »

The minute something like this comes up and i denounce using it out of hand, the next day there is a call for it. Last night i tracked a StonerWizardRockCore band nad found myself dialing in three verbs on the drums during tracking, i even printed some of them.

1. Long Plate or chamber- Yep.

2. Gated snare- Uh huh.

3. Inverse delayed slap- Oh my.

There was a fair amount of EQ placed on the last two for each song to get them to sit right and be a part of the sound. Very key dependent. So when i get 1000 Miles of Blood or Bleeding Elf Lord mixed maybe i'll get the tunes up on Eshaun's forum. Hmmmm?
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j.hall

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2004, 11:07:07 AM »

low pass is a must for digital verbs

totally agree with michael on that one

i typically return verbs to channels so i can EQ and automate with ease......

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Ross Hogarth

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2004, 12:58:15 AM »

I find that Eq'ing the return is very crucial. I eq the send a bit but there just is not enough control inside of digital reverb for me to contour it so I always do it on the return.
An old EMT plate is something that I will do a voodoo send to. I usually Eq a pre delayed send to the plate and then eq the return. Sometimes I will setup a 1/4" machine for predelay because of it's wonderfulness.
Very often when mixing I will have a 1/4" for a slap both to the EMT or just for slap. Then I will play with the bias of the tape for effect.
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drumsound

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2004, 04:11:17 AM »

I don't send snare to reverb often...When I do I usually gate the send so the verb doesn't get washy.  It returns on channels and often has some cutting with a high shelf.  Often there is automation as well.
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Zoesch

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Re: 'verb returns
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2004, 06:38:31 AM »

You want weird on your 'verb?

Don't duck the returns... duck the sends, and do frequency conscious ducking.

It can be quite interesting on the right sources... (Which ones? I'll never tell he he he Very Happy)
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