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Author Topic: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests  (Read 9601 times)

MASSIVE Mastering

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'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« on: May 23, 2008, 09:46:38 am »

It comes up from time to time - So much so, that I'm sure if I actually answered them all, I wouldn't have enough time to do much else.  

Received an e-mail today addressed to several (14?) ME's, many of which hang out here and at other forums.  

While I'm flattered to be included in a "CC:" with some really great engineers, the mass "cattle call" type auditions seem to be getting more and more frequent (at least several per week) and although I used to respond to most (and get a reasonable amount of work from them), I'm starting to feel as if it's -- I dunno...  It's an awful lot of time to invest when you know it's going to be a toss-up between 2 or 3 "finalists."  

I don't really mind getting a letter that says "Hey John -- We're sending this off to you and one other place and we want to hear which one we like the most."

On one hand, the customer is always right and when you're looking for services, shopping around makes sense.  But these seem like "Mastering Idol" or something...  

When I decided who to hire to remodel my kitchen, I had to decide between several different services based on word-of-mouth and photos.  I wasn't able to have them each come in and redo part of my kitchen.  

Discuss...?  
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John Scrip
Massive Mastering - Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.), IL - USA

turtletone

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 09:59:50 am »

Yeah, i don't do those, well at least not knowingly. I also find that clients that do that kind of thing aren't the ones I want.They are about as loyal as a Thai hooker.
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Michael Fossenkemper
TurtleTone Studio
info@turtletonestudio.com
www.turtletonestudio.com

carlsaff

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2008, 10:39:54 am »

I do free samples, but with the understanding that they're done in my "free time." I don't often have free time, tho, and so sometimes they don't get done at all. No harm, no foul... if I'm too busy to do the samples, I'm probably not in need of the work, anyway. In such cases, I assume that someone who does need work got the job, which is as it should be.

bblackwood

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2008, 10:43:16 am »

Having received yet another one of these this AM, I'm with you, John. I don't even respond to these - if you don't care enough to personalize an email to me, I don't want your business. I do shoot-outs all the time, but refuse to be a part of these 'cattle-calls'.

And yes, the one from this AM went into the trash with no reply.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

cass anawaty

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2008, 11:37:05 am »

Most of you are much more established than I am, but I'm not doing those at all anymore.  I believe 99% of the time it's a loudness race, and frankly, don't want to deal w/ those types of clients on the "indie" level.  I also think it's demeaning to the industry.  Working a small sample for a referral is different.

My solution?  I have a "mastering demo" available on request that's a 30mb download (320kbps mp3) covering several styles of mastered material--with at least a minute and a half of each tune included.  

If someone won't take the time to sit and listen to my work for 15 minutes, are they going to be a good client?

When I'm starving, I'll reconsider.   Laughing  
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Cass Anawaty, Chief Engineer
Sunbreak Music, LLC
High Resolution Stereo Mastering
www.sunbreakmusic.com

Gold

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2008, 11:43:45 am »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 10:43

 if you don't care enough to personalize an email to me, I don't want your business.


Same here.  
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Paul Gold
www.saltmastering.com

On the silk road, looking for uranium.

djwaudio

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2008, 12:13:24 pm »

I'll add to the show of solidarity. No casting couch for me either.

If everyone did a sample for this guy, there would be five to ten free hours of service rendered... How is that win-win?

No thanks.
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Respectfully submitted,
Dana

Dana J. White
specializedmastering.com



duckhunter

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2008, 02:26:03 pm »

Hey guys, go ahead and accept the challenge and let me or someone else master it and if you like what we've done, submit it under your name with the proviso that I or someone else do the rest of the work, subject to your final approval, with an agreed upon split of the fees. Its a no loose situation for you established ME's.  If you don't like what we've done or can't tweak it to your satisfaction with minimal effort, just don't submit it.  You might find a whole group of so called ME's you can later work with to increase your volume of business without degrading quality.

Then again, this might be an all messed up idea if you can't stand the thought of letting someone inferior to your skill level do the work for you.  I would understand that mindset, too.
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Studio 89

bblackwood

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2008, 02:38:33 pm »

dguidry wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 13:26

Hey guys, go ahead and accept the challenge and let me or someone else master it and if you like what we've done, submit it under your name with the proviso that I or someone else do the rest of the work, subject to your final approval, with an agreed upon split of the fees. Its a no loose situation for you established ME's.  If you don't like what we've done or can't tweak it to your satisfaction with minimal effort, just don't submit it.  You might find a whole group of so called ME's you can later work with to increase your volume of business without degrading quality.

Then again, this might be an all messed up idea if you can't stand the thought of letting someone inferior to your skill level do the work for you.  I would understand that mindset, too.

Does the word 'unethical' mean much to you?
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

duckhunter

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2008, 03:25:14 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 13:38

dguidry wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 13:26

Hey guys, go ahead and accept the challenge and let me or someone else master it and if you like what we've done, submit it under your name with the proviso that I or someone else do the rest of the work, subject to your final approval, with an agreed upon split of the fees. Its a no loose situation for you established ME's.  If you don't like what we've done or can't tweak it to your satisfaction with minimal effort, just don't submit it.  You might find a whole group of so called ME's you can later work with to increase your volume of business without degrading quality.

Then again, this might be an all messed up idea if you can't stand the thought of letting someone inferior to your skill level do the work for you.  I would understand that mindset, too.

Does the word 'unethical' mean much to you?

There is nothing unethical about a referral.  Its done all the time in my profession.  In this case all you would be doing is letting someone else do the work...like a hired hand.  Nothing wrong or unethical about that at all.  As long as the work meets your standards, you simply adopt it, give credit where its due, and take a cut of the fees once the project is approved by you and submitted for payment.
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Studio 89

bblackwood

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2008, 04:57:51 pm »

dguidry wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 14:25

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 13:38

dguidry wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 13:26

Hey guys, go ahead and accept the challenge and let me or someone else master it and if you like what we've done, submit it under your name with the proviso that I or someone else do the rest of the work, subject to your final approval, with an agreed upon split of the fees. Its a no loose situation for you established ME's.  If you don't like what we've done or can't tweak it to your satisfaction with minimal effort, just don't submit it.  You might find a whole group of so called ME's you can later work with to increase your volume of business without degrading quality.

Then again, this might be an all messed up idea if you can't stand the thought of letting someone inferior to your skill level do the work for you.  I would understand that mindset, too.

Does the word 'unethical' mean much to you?

There is nothing unethical about a referral.  

That's not a referral, that's passing off someone else's work as your own, and would get you black-listed quick in this industry.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Greg Reierson

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2008, 06:15:52 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 15:57


That's not a referral, that's passing off someone else's work as your own, and would get you black-listed quick in this industry.


Alan Smithie


GR
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jdg

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 06:33:24 pm »

my real name is alan smithie, and had to change it.
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john mcCaig
-Mothery Earworks Clarifold Audipure

mworks

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2008, 06:52:00 pm »

I am happy to charge to do one song....but gotta charge.  You can't drink a bottle of wine before you decide to buy a case.

jfrigo

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Re: 'Cattle Call' mastering sample / demo requests
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2008, 09:24:10 pm »

The fishing expedition chain letters with a dozen receipients are non-starters for me, just like the rest of you. If you can't narrow it down to two, or possibly three possibilities based on your research and previous work, and then make personal contact, it really does not reflect well, and foreshadows a potentially unpleasant working experience.

Experienced professionals who are worth having do the job just are not desperate enough for work to jump through such insulting hoops, spending valuable time for so little chance of return. I have existing clients I need to service first and foremost. If this is the value they place upon our work, is it reasonable for them to expect to have any higher value placed on theirs?

Honestly, the more experienced and professional the client, the easier it is to get the job, and easier they are to work with. The most demanding jobs are often the lowest budget. I'd like to offer the benefit of the doubt and hope that the most recent mastering chain letter initiator just didn't think before he acted. I wish him success in completing his project.
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