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Author Topic: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound  (Read 15652 times)

daxliniere

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2008, 08:44:56 pm »

Quote:

Also I forgot, get that cab pumping. You want it LOUD


I wasn't going to say anything, but since it's been raised twice now, I have to say my bit.

I have had this experience with many guitarists now. They all insist that their amp "has to be turned up to sound right."

I disagree and I have proven it on many occasions.
Record the amp at blistering volume, then turn it down to a reasonable level. I'm not talking quiet, but definetely under 50% and record that.

Then match the gain of the 2 recordings and A/B them. To this day, there has never been a difference.

To put some perspective on it, I monitor through RME->Cranesong HEDD192->ATC T16s in an acoustically treated mix room.

The ear distorts and compresses at high volumes, so this explains why "it sounds better".
I also believe there is a degree of ego (I am so loud!) contributing to this faulty reasoning.
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Dax Liniere

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ALLCAPS

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2008, 09:23:54 pm »

well I am not talking 130db, just enough to see the woofer move on palm mutes and stuff. Your saying "less than half" leads me to belive my definition of "LOUD" and your definition of "reasonable" might be the same volume. Right now I am recording a 5150 with the master on 3, It's pushing maybe 110db in the room, the speaker is excursing nicely and I have no reason to turn it louder than that. I'm getting what I want from it.
There's certainly was a time when it really mattered (old non-master volume marshalls)

My focus is mostly on metal/hard rock/heavy music and I can certainly hear the difference between preamp tube distortion and power amp/speaker saturation. Either way I'm monitoring at 83db, so it isn't my eardrums compressing.
My comment that it needs to be loud means, you can't get that tone at bedroom levels, it wont work.

YMMV, but I much prefer to hear the cabinet getting involved.
For clarity, I AM a guitar player and have a HUGE ego (ha!)


I'd be interested to hear your A/B samples and post some of my own.
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Firefly

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2008, 07:00:26 am »

Thanks for the advice all!  Very Happy  

I've been playing around a bit and found that a muff disto into a 5150 (amp sim  Rolling Eyes ) gives seriously kick ass chugg! case of some distortion from the pedal together with a bit 'o distortion on the amp making something better than the sum of the parts.

I can vouch for the guitar bit, it if ain't a good humbucker (aka les paul) then you might as well not bother.

Something thats been left out of the equation is choice of microphone. The standard mantra is usually a 57, but in my experience (albeit limited when it comes to actually micing up amps) i'll get a nice cutting sound from the amp, but the sound from the mic feels like its gonna scratch my head off! So how much allowance do you guys make for the tonal character of the mic? Okay, that sounds like a retarded question, if its not working obviously you should try another mic or play with the amp settings more - but do you guys find the contrast between what you hear in the room and through the monitors as drastic as i'm describing?

Also how much eq will you use after the fact? Usually i stick to "get it right at source", but i saw a video where a guy was trashing eq on the GTR (esp the highs) and it sounded good, and well, an eq in a sequencer is a lot more versatile than the fixed band eq on an amp...
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grantis

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2008, 10:24:09 am »

I can tell you right now that the 57 is not the best mic for guitars.  Sometimes it works, and it's fine, but there are plenty of other options that could work better.  e906 comes to mind (or 409 if you can get one).  121 rings a bell too.

The room is deceiving.  Trust your monitors.

Obviously, make the tracks as awesome as possible, but IMO, there's no real way to tell EXACTLY how to EQ something before the mix.  Just make it sound really really good in tracking, then don't shy from the EQ in the mix phase.
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Grant Craig
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j.hall

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2008, 11:48:37 am »

Firefly wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 06:00



I can vouch for the guitar bit, it if ain't a good humbucker (aka les paul) then you might as well not bother.



that's crap.

P-90's are GLORIOUS!!!

single coil fenders can do some really cool things too.

listen to Thrice - Fire, and then tell me a single coil is worthless..........

you also should have one of these in your studio:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ElectroHarmonix-Hum-D ebugger-Hum-Eliminator-Pedal?sku=150136

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J-Texas

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2008, 06:03:07 pm »

Man I think a 57 sounds fine on a cab. People have been doing it for years. No, it would not be the perfect choice in all situations.

As far as the room goes... it shouldn't matter that much because the speaker is hitting that mic at 1-12 inches away! I like to go about 3 inches out where the dust cap meets the cone.

That's another thing... if the amp sounds good in front of you, it should sound good to tape. If not, move the mic around. If that doesn't do it... then, yes, by all means try another mic.

If you want to use the 57. Go ahead. But, try to move it around before you start twisting a bunch of knobs.

Also, if you use more than that one mic, the room would absolutely matter... as well as MANY other factors (including Grant  Smile ) the room and the phase relationship between the two mics.


ps. I love my Single Rec combo with my Am. Strat. Sounds great many ways.
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Jason Thompson
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Firefly

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2008, 06:23:41 pm »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 17:48

Firefly wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 06:00



I can vouch for the guitar bit, it if ain't a good humbucker (aka les paul) then you might as well not bother.



that's crap.

P-90's are GLORIOUS!!!

single coil fenders can do some really cool things too.




Well i stand corrected then!

But in my experience with fenders trying get a high gain modern sound out of them is like trying to get a cat to wear a tutu...the cats get's angry and your hands are going to bleed! Haven't listened to fire yet but i'll believe theres some cool stuff going on there;).
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J-Texas

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2008, 06:31:51 pm »

Firefly wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 17:23


But in my experience with fenders trying get a high gain modern sound out of them is like trying to get a cat to wear a tutu...


http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Prints/PrintGraphics/CatDancing.jpg
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Jason Thompson
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j.hall

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2008, 09:22:30 pm »

Firefly wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 17:23



Well i stand corrected then!

But in my experience with fenders trying get a high gain modern sound out of them is like trying to get a cat to wear a tutu...the cats get's angry and your hands are going to bleed! Haven't listened to fire yet but i'll believe theres some cool stuff going on there;).



http://www.myspace.com/thrice

go listen to the song "firebreather" and tell me if single coils can't do the high gain thing.

did you mix the last IMP?  that's my band.  those are P-90's on that song (the whole record actually)

i'd take a good P-90 over a humbucker any day.


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Firefly

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2008, 02:30:49 pm »

 Shocked a cat wearing a tutu!

well guess i'll just keep quiet now...
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pg666

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2008, 03:38:52 pm »

i think you have a point; getting modern single coil Fenders to rock is difficult, but that's because stock Fender pickups kinda suck. good single coil pickups can be pretty ballsy though, unless you go with vintage 1950's sounding pups or something. check out Young Widows to hear how much a Telecaster can rock.

p90s are great too. then again, so are good humbuckers.

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rankus

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2008, 04:52:47 pm »



Um...  Jimi Hendrix

Case closed

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NelsonL

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2008, 05:21:55 pm »

rankus wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 13:52



Um...  Jimi Hendrix

Case closed




Go see Earthless for a contemporary example!
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Electric Warrior

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2008, 08:03:58 am »

pg666 wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 21:38

i think you have a point; getting modern single coil Fenders to rock is difficult, but that's because stock Fender pickups kinda suck. good single coil pickups can be pretty ballsy though, unless you go with vintage 1950's sounding pups or something. check out Young Widows to hear how much a Telecaster can rock.

p90s are great too. then again, so are good humbuckers.





p90s ARE vintage 1950's sounding pickups  Laughing
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pg666

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Re: Q: "THAT" modern guitar sound
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2008, 01:07:55 pm »

well, so are humbuckers, if you're gonna be like that..

i just meant the really early Tele pickups and the like; very bright and wire-y, low output.. not so good for high gain rock.
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