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Author Topic: buss compression  (Read 36749 times)

J-Texas

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2008, 08:43:28 PM »

J-Texas wrote on Tue, 22 July 2008 19:42

I'll say that the pumping in Free's "All Right Now" is an almost perfect fine line that you would want to hit on a hard rockin' tune! Man that thing slams.





I found out that the version I like so much is the single (radio version) not the album version.
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Jason Thompson
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stevieeastend

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2008, 02:07:29 PM »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 19:06

so, i'm re-thinking some of my "standards" and looking to play around a bit, see if something cooler won't present itself to me.

i have an SSL 384 buss compressor that sits on my stereo buss.

i hardly ever touch it.

i've always doen 4:1 ratio, the fastest release and the slowest attack

release is 100ms attack is 30ms

i'm typically compressing a mix between 1 to 3 dB

anyone have any buss comp settings that i should give a go at?


I ALWAYS adjust attack, release to the tempo and threshold to the character of the song.

I agree that 4:1 makes a cool thing to the mix. Some would say THE thing but usually, if mixing on a large format console, a mix would do without as well.

To be honest, if times would be different I wouldn´t use it at all and give the mastering engineer more room to work but it´s almost impossible to give a mix to bands/managers etc. without stereo bus compressor. Everybody is used to this artificial radio sound...

mcsnare

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2008, 04:17:48 PM »

I don't think it's a great idea to give an M.E. an uncompressed mix with the intention of him/her compressing it. If you think the concept of bus compression is valid, you should do it on your own. Even a very small amount of compression will change the relationship of the mix elements. If you put it on early in the mix process you can get the glue, density, smack, whatever you call it, and adjust levels within the mix to be what you want them to be. If you get perfect levels and then add compression as a separate process, it can easily change things for the worse. If you end up getting the exact mix you want without compression, the M.E. should be instructed as such. Then the M.E. can use their judgement about how best to preserve the quality of the mix that is a result of using no bus compression. I have one client every now and then that will tell me, they have not mixed with stereo compression, but they want to leave that up to me. It usually works out OK, but I always have a sense of trodding on ground that wasn't meant to be disturbed in the way that usually happens. If you are new to compression, have your M.E. give a quick listen prior to mastering and give a little advice about what they hear happening, and possible ways to achieve a better result.

Dave

stevieeastend

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2008, 06:17:19 AM »

Hi Dave,

I am definitely not new to compressing a stereo mix, as matter of fact I am doing it for years now.  
Maybe I was not making things clear though...

When I started I always compressed 2:1 using the bus compression. Only slightly used, just to give it this "glue" and a little colour.
Now I compress 4:1, really heavy to make clients, A&Rs and managers happy.
...I wasn´t aware that mastering engineers nowadays are also happier with heavy compressed stuff?

I think that an experienced mastering engineer still got a lot more tools and knowledge on giving a mix THE rockin thing... I had very good experiences giving away (almost) uncompressed mixes to Stephen Marcussen, Louie Teran and Joe Yannece... f.e....

j.hall

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2008, 02:15:50 PM »

any ME that asks me to take off my buss compression and re-submit mixes is an ME that just got fired.


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Adam Miller

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2008, 02:34:25 PM »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 19:15

any ME that asks me to take off my buss compression and re-submit mixes is an ME that just got fired.




What if it was Bob Ludwig, and taking the compression off made it better?
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Podgorny

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2008, 04:32:30 PM »

What if God made a rock he couldn't pick up?
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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

Jonah A. Kort

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2008, 05:25:15 PM »

My band has recorded with J. hall a few times and he has mixed a

good chunk of songs for us.  I can honestly tell you I'd fire the

ME if they wanted the buss compression to come off, even if it was

Bob Ludwig.  All the songs J. has mixed for my band SLAY, I believe  

buss compression is big part of that sound.  It's like a engineer  

telling drummer not to hit hard because his microphones and gear

are sensitive, dude would get fired.  


Did that make any sense?
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grantis

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2008, 06:05:06 PM »

Yes Jonah, I agree.  Last week, I had an ME ask for no buss compression before he heard the mixes.

There were no complaints upon delivery...


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Grant Craig
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Adam Miller

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2008, 08:19:01 PM »

Jonah A. Kort wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 22:25

My band has recorded with J. hall a few times and he has mixed a

good chunk of songs for us.  I can honestly tell you I'd fire the

ME if they wanted the buss compression to come off, even if it was

Bob Ludwig.  All the songs J. has mixed for my band SLAY, I believe  

buss compression is big part of that sound.  It's like a engineer  

telling drummer not to hit hard because his microphones and gear

are sensitive, dude would get fired.  


Did that make any sense?


Absolutely, and I don't want to cast aspersions on anyone's mixing abilities. But I don't see any point in being dogmatic for the sake of it- if a hugely experienced engineer (be it recording, mixing, mastering, whatever) recommended I do something based on what they had heard of my work- then I'd seriously consider doing it. I'd be open to the advice of any highly experienced pro, at any stage in the record making process- IF they offered it on the basis of what they heard in my work, rather than as part of some 'preset' way of working.
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iCombs

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2008, 11:29:49 AM »

Adam Miller wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 13:34

j.hall wrote on Mon, 01 December 2008 19:15

any ME that asks me to take off my buss compression and re-submit mixes is an ME that just got fired.




What if it was Bob Ludwig, and taking the compression off made it better?


Shouldn't matter who it is.  I'd tell anyone to get bent if the suggestion was detrimental to the project from my perspective (which isn't to say I wouldn't listen to their input).  The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not the product leaves mastering in better shape than it showed up.  If a little less smashy-smashy made it sound better, I'd be good with that.

I can't speak for j., but by listening to his mixes I can tell you that the way he uses buss compression is a big part of his mix style, and to ask for him to change that would probably be asking for a near total remix.  I could be wrong on this, but it just seems that way from where I sit.

I, being a bit more of a rook than j. and some of the others here, tend to print mixes with and without buss compression, though I'm really learning how to hear/use that 2 Buss comp and may be rapidly approaching the day where I just print my mixes with buss comp and to hell with the ME, that's how I want it to sound...not just yet...but perhaps in another few projects.
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Ian Combs
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stevieeastend

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2008, 02:15:36 PM »

It´s not the point taking away the bus compression if it´s desired by the mixer, producer and band.

The point is that I wasn´t aware of the fact that stereo bus compression on a mix should be the better option for the mastering engineer IN GENERAL.

To me it really depends on the music and style, tempo of the song.

If you´re mixing mainly independent rock music, no matter what tempo, I can see the benefit of bus compression there.

I only wanted to point out though that I cannot agree on the fact that a given ratio, release and attack should be working for ALL kind of music.

cheers
St

Greg Thompson

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2008, 07:59:40 PM »

for what it's worth,  I was mastering a project for a friend a few months back.
He had printed the mixes with a large amount of compression plus brickwall limiting.
I was unable to add brightness without harshness, and unable to attain any additional loudness without introducing more gain reduction artifacts.

I had him remove the brickwall limiting and resend the mixes and then I ran it through my mastering chain and put my brickwall limiting on at the end.

I managed to bring out more top end shine and gain a few dB of loudness.

And he didn't fire me for asking for a less compressed mix.
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Podgorny

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2008, 10:57:36 PM »

No one is debating whether you should deliver limited mixes to the mastering engineer; you shouldn't.

But we're not talking about limiting.  We're talking about bus compression.
It's not about loudness, it's about a sound. And I don't want the mastering engineer to get my sounds for me, thanks.
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"Nobody cares what the impedance is; all they care about is when you can walk into the room, set up a mic, turn the knobs, hit record, and make everybody go 'wow.'"

grantis

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2008, 12:05:32 AM »

Podgorny wrote on Tue, 02 December 2008 21:57

No one is debating whether you should deliver limited mixes to the mastering engineer; you shouldn't.

But we're not talking about limiting.  We're talking about bus compression.
It's not about loudness, it's about a sound. And I don't want the mastering engineer to get my sounds for me, thanks.



Very well put.

You should give a ME plenty of headroom to make the mixes loud.  That's his job.
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Grant Craig
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