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Author Topic: buss compression  (Read 23422 times)

J-Texas

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2008, 08:42:18 pm »

I'll say that the pumping in Free's "All Right Now" is an almost perfect fine line that you would want to hit on a hard rockin' tune! Man that thing slams.

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Jason Thompson
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Devin Knutson

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2008, 12:06:19 am »

J-Texas wrote on Tue, 22 July 2008 17:42

I'll say that the pumping in Free's "All Right Now" is an almost perfect fine line that you would want to hit on a hard rockin' tune! Man that thing slams.


When the context is "compression", the words "pumping" and "perfect" should never, ever be seen in the same sentence.

Ever.
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SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
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Patrik T

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2008, 12:37:48 am »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 19:06

i've always doen 4:1 ratio, the fastest release and the slowest attack

release is 100ms attack is 30ms

i'm typically compressing a mix between 1 to 3 dB


I have never come across two things that are equally optimal with the same ratio, attack and release. At least not in a repetitive manner like this.

Quote:

anyone have any buss comp settings that i should give a go at?


None apart from on or off. The rest of the controls are very song-dependant.


Best Regards
Patrik
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Greg Thompson

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2008, 07:41:59 am »

Devin Knutson wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 05:06

J-Texas wrote on Tue, 22 July 2008 17:42

I'll say that the pumping in Free's "All Right Now" is an almost perfect fine line that you would want to hit on a hard rockin' tune! Man that thing slams.


When the context is "compression", the words "pumping" and "perfect" should never, ever be seen in the same sentence.

Ever.



says who?
One man's trash is another man's treasure
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j.hall

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2008, 08:51:12 am »

i can't recall the last rock mix i've heard that hasn't been pumping to some degree or another.
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Devin Knutson

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2008, 12:31:29 pm »

Well, each to their own, and all that I suppose.

I can't recall the last recent rock mix I heard that didn't sound like complete and utter ass.

Even As Tall As Lions, which is my current favorite of the crop...  I can't listen to it all the way through.  It hurts.

A while back, my son bought American Idiot from iTunes, and deleted it from his player two days later.  He said he really liked the song, but it didn't sound very good at all, and he couldn't listen to it any more.  He's 11.

I guess I just don't get it.  I don't understand how folks can go around with straight faces saying "I keep making uber-modern, super squashed, distorted and pumpy records like everyone else...  why won't anyone buy them?"

Also... yes, I do realize that I'm being something of a crotchety old fart here, but c'mon.  There's a reason that your neighbor's kids are still listening to Led Zeppelin, and it ain't JUST the songs.
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SpongeBob, reel it in, quick! Can't you hear the music?
That's a 4/4 string ostinato in D-minor!
Every sailor knows it means death!
    - Mr. Eugene H. Krabbs

grantis

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2008, 01:41:58 pm »

Quote:

There's a reason that your neighbor's kids are still listening to Led Zeppelin, and it ain't JUST the songs.


As a young fart, i can say that I love some Zeppelin tunes.

I just have to turn it off after about 10 min because I don't like how it sounds.

TO EACH HIS OOOOWWWWWN.
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Grant Craig
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J-Texas

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2008, 01:58:30 pm »

Hey, there are some great Zep tunes that have a little squash and pump. It's POWER.

I don't see anything wrong with just the right amount of balls for power (which is what I hear in the song I mentioned).

Devin, what you describe is lifeless, brickwall crap and I agree with that. Not at all what I was talking about you old fart.
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Jason Thompson
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MGA

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2008, 03:32:24 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 13:02

beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12

Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09

Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33


J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  



Eh? How does that work?



4 to 1

4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up!


not really the case from what i understand.

A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.

Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)

paece

beau


I know you can't figure this out with an equation like I wrote! That was the only thing that would equal twelve.




Sure you can calculate the gain reduction with an equation.

The ratio defines HOW MUCH the signal gets compressed (once it is over the threshold).

The gain reduction just tells how much gain is reduced, nothing more, no more calculation nothing. 3dB gain reduction = 3dB less dynamics, simple as that (note this doesn't take into acount the attack and release so the overall dynamic reduction might be much lower due to the attack still letting spikes thru etc., but the instantious dynamic reduction at the time the meter reads a value is exactly that value and nothing else (this is highly dependent on the accuracy and lag time of the meter though)).

So to comeback to that formula thing:
in: is your input signal, in dB
out: output, in dB
thresh: threshold, in dB
ratio: ratio, given as a ratio like x:1 = x
gr: gain reduction, in dB

so let's see, let's say in will go above the thresh, then you'll get: (THIS IS JUST THE OUT(t) = F(IN(t)) FUNCTION, attack and release come in to play on how fast the compressor will reach the desired output level)

thresh + (in-thresh)/ratio = out

with this gr can be calculated as follows:

gr = in - out

so an example in = -6dBFS, thresh = -10dBFS, ratio = 4:1 = 4
(calc with units omitted)
(-10) + ( (-6) - (-10) ) / 4 = (-10) + (4)/4 = -9

gr = -6 - (-9) = 3 dBFS


This is how ratio on a compressor works anyway ... for any further information refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_level_compression

Hopefully you'll understand the concept of a compressor after reading this and can finally get license to use a compressor back.

Sorry for this long technical post but I just couldn't not post Smile.
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J-Texas

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2008, 03:35:38 pm »

Is this a joke? (because mine was)

edit for clarification - "I know you can't figure this out with an equation like I wrote! That was the only thing that would equal twelve."
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Jason Thompson
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j.hall

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2008, 11:52:33 am »

i strongly urge you to listen to the new seether record and tell me it sounds like crap.

if you think so, then fine.  but that record is so brilliantly recorded and mixed it's sick!

no pumping on zep records.......HAHAHAHAHAHA  that's the funniest thing i've ever read!!!!!!!!!
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Chris Ilett

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2008, 01:31:36 pm »

(+) sum(*)times rules = made to be broken

divided by

Listen and play until it sounds good.

= make it rock like a beast.

j.hall

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2008, 01:57:16 pm »

MGAudio wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 14:32



Sure you can calculate the gain reduction with an equation.




how about a vari-mu comp?

i'd like to see that math.

and actually, let's make a bit harder.  tell me the ratio.  i have a meter that tells me GR.
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MGA

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2008, 09:15:26 am »

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 23 July 2008 14:35

Is this a joke? (because mine was)



Sorry if it was, but in that case I guess your license to make jokes should be revoked, since obviously no one got your joke  Confused .
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MGA

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2008, 09:33:32 am »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 24 July 2008 12:57


how about a vari-mu comp?

i'd like to see that math.

and actually, let's make a bit harder.  tell me the ratio.  i have a meter that tells me GR.


Sorry I have to pass on that one since the vari-mu is all tubes (right?), and tube math isn't very well explored since everyone switched to transitors, so there was no reason to futher study tubes.
In the vari-mu case it is even more complicated since (as far as I heard) it uses dynamical re-biasing of the tubes to achieve compression and it has a very very wide knee (in limiting mode) which makes it more unpredictable, especially if the tube math is unknown.
I was born long after tubes were popular, so I'm happy I even know what a tube is (so that's why the above might not be correct Razz).
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