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Author Topic: buss compression  (Read 23407 times)

j.hall

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buss compression
« on: May 15, 2008, 01:06:05 pm »

so, i'm re-thinking some of my "standards" and looking to play around a bit, see if something cooler won't present itself to me.

i have an SSL 384 buss compressor that sits on my stereo buss.

i hardly ever touch it.

i've always doen 4:1 ratio, the fastest release and the slowest attack

release is 100ms attack is 30ms

i'm typically compressing a mix between 1 to 3 dB

anyone have any buss comp settings that i should give a go at?
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NelsonL

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 01:39:25 pm »

Pretty much the same here only Tube Tech LCA 2B.

The best thing I've heard on my 2 buss is still tape--not so much for compression, but it does glue things together.

A lot of our clients can't or won't swing it though.
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rankus

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 04:08:08 pm »



I virtually never use 2 bus comp.

(Adding another perspective)


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Fig

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008, 04:33:11 pm »

rankus wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 15:08



I virtually never use 2 bus comp.

(Adding another perspective)





I never use a virtual two bus comp. Rolling Eyes

Back when I was trying to get my mixes as loud as others' masters we would use a variety of 2-bus comps (usually at like 2:1) - but not anymore.  Now I just use the control room monitor volume knob and let the program be dynamic.

J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  'Course, it all depends on the material I guess - in your case(s) it might be just the thing.

I like to mix with nothing between my console's outputs and the converters.  I feel it makes me a better mixer, and that produces better mixes.  Works for me.

YMMV,

Fig


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grantis

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008, 04:39:51 pm »

I've been utilizing about 2 db MAX at 2:1 lately.  It seems to keep my mixes more open.  This is a reduction from about 4 db MAX at 4:1.

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j.hall

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2008, 05:16:10 pm »

Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 15:33

oom monitor volume knob and let the program be dynamic.

J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  'Course, it all depends on the material I guess - in your case(s) it might be just the thing.




i only have 3 choices on the SSL.  2:1, 4:1, and 10:1

they all sound different (when you match the GR) and 4:1 sounds the best to me.  i like aggressive compression

10:1 actually sounds cool on certain stuff with the GR meter hardly moving.
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Adam Miller

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 04:09:48 am »

Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33


J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  



Eh? How does that work?
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J-Texas

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 09:12:31 am »

Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09

Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33


J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  



Eh? How does that work?



4 to 1

4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up!
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beau

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 11:05:58 am »

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12

Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09

Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33


J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  



Eh? How does that work?



4 to 1

4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up!


not really the case from what i understand.

A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.

Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)

paece

beau
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beau

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 11:26:48 am »

jay, do you find that the 4:1 sounds smoother than the 2:1 on your ssl comp? i am using the al smart c2 and prefer 2:1 for the same reason you prefer the 4:1 i love compression, and for some reason on the c2, the 2:1 sounds more aggressive than the 4:1  

usually medium attack straight up at 1 i believe, with fastest release.  1-3 db of compression is all i can handle on the 2 bus, before mastering guys get mad at me.

peace

beau
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Fig

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 12:12:42 pm »

beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05



not really the case from what i understand.

A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.

Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)

paece

beau


I'm sorry, I was just jumping to a conclusion with the simple math.

Perhaps I am generalizing and all devices actually behave differently, but the way I understand it -

when only concerned with above threshold signals at 4:1 ratio - when a 4 dB increase goes in, only a 1 dB increase comes out (not very noticable) - the GR meter reads 3 dB down.  So you gotta put in a whopping 12 dB increase to get a 3 dB increase out (a noticable increase) -- you're right though, that's only 9 dB of GR - and its NOT what J is doing, either.  But the implications are astounding to me.

Time constants and the actual program material can yield different results ( as can different compressors, even at the "same" settings).  That may sound really cool on some room mics or something, but it seems excessive for the whole mix, IMO.

The 4 dB input increase is sure to be noticed by the listener if left uncompressed (not a bad thing in my mind) - the resulting 1 dB increase in compressed output slips by relatively unnoticed.  To get a 3 dB increase at the output (again something noticable by the listener) the program has to increase by 12 dB!  I guess I'm just hoping that the majority of the mix is below threshold, and therefore behaving linearly.

Lately I have been going for "dynamically open" mixes (no bus comp) and truly enjoying the 6-10 dB of dynamic range from peaks versus average levels (the clients dig it too).

I understand why a lot of modern rock recordings strive for a dynamic range of 2 or 3 dB between peaks and average - but it bothers me sometimes when I know there is so much more there that is being "contained" by bus compression.

Don't get me wrong, I loves me some juicy comp - just not on the whole mix.

Different strokes, right?

Fig

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Podgorny

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 12:50:16 pm »

I think somebody misunderstands how the metering on their compressors works.

I GUARANTEE I'm not taking 48dB off of a guitar track when I'm compressing 12:1 on an 1176.

As far as your mix buss comp goes, I never move away from 4:1, but the attack varies between 10ms and 30ms, depending upon the music.  Release is usually is on auto, but once again, it depends upon the music.

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Fig

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2008, 01:17:12 pm »

Podgorny wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 11:50


I GUARANTEE I'm not taking 48dB off of a guitar track when I'm compressing 12:1 on an 1176.




Methinks you misread what I miswrote! Cool
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J-Texas

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2008, 02:02:20 pm »

beau wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 10:05

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 06:12

Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 03:09

Fig wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33


J, 4:1 seems like a LOT to me on the 2-bus.  If you're seeing 1-3 dB of reduction, that's 4 - 12 dB of dynamic range you are sucking up.  



Eh? How does that work?



4 to 1

4 times 3dB of reduction = 12db of dynamics you're sucking up!


not really the case from what i understand.

A compressor reduces the gain (level) of an audio signal if its amplitude exceeds a threshold. The amount of gain reduction is determined by a ratio. For example, with a ratio of 4:1, when the (time averaged) input level is 4 dB over the threshold, the output signal level will be 1 dB over the threshold. The gain (level) has been reduced by 3 dB. When the input level is 8 dB above the threshold, the output level will be 2 dB; a 6 dB gain reduction.
A more specific example for a 4:1 ratio:
using a digital dbfs meter.

Threshold = ?10 dB
Input = ?6 dB (4 dB above the threshold)
Output = ?9 dB (1 dB above the threshold)

paece

beau


I know you can't figure this out with an equation like I wrote! That was the only thing that would equal twelve.

Geez, I go to lunch and look what happens!  Rolling Eyes


Here's some good poopoo reading: http://www.barryrudolph.com/mix/comp.html
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Jason Thompson
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Adam Miller

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Re: buss compression
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2008, 08:17:41 am »

Not that I want to derail this topic, but if the gain reduction metering on Js mixbuss comp reads 1-3 dB, then he's reducing the dynamic range of his music by....

...take a wild guess. The metering ballistics of the SSL comp are another matter, but let's assume it gives a pretty accurate representation of what's going on.

There's not a whole load of parameters to mess about with on an SSL - try 3ms attack, 300ms release, 2:1 with 2-3dB reduction.  
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