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[Colin Larson]

so I've been lurking here a little bit and decided to give the IMP thing a try.  I got into it, and I thought I had this slammin mix going, and it sounded good AB'd up against the other imp17 mixes and everything, and then as soon as I listened to it in my car, it sounds like ass.. just really dark and not BIG at all.

I always try to describe it like, commercial mixes I hear seem to be just big, wide, and tall.  Like they get a 9x9x9 box to put their mixes in.  My box never seems to be that big.. like mine is only a 6x6x6 box or something.  If a mix is dark, I can put more highs into it, but then it just sounds like a small mix with a lot of crappy highs turned up.  Like, no matter what I do, I'll never get the big badass pro sounding mix I want.

Now, I always blamed my crappy mic preamps and such, but the IMP thing is different since all the files were digital to start with, and they never left the digital realm from mixing to bounce.  Is there anyone else who feels like hitting "Bounce to Disk" in PT is like a death sentence for your audio?  Like, the track will just be totally huge sounding while I'm listening to it in PT, but as soon as it gets bounced down to 2 track and listened to on another system it's just super small and crappy sounding, with no dynamics.  Like a packing blanket is over the speakers.

Anyone have some words of encouragement or advice?

oh.. and here's the mix if anyone wants to listen:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ekwagner/IMP17colin.mp3

edit: oh, and I didn't mean this to be an imp submission, I know I'm way past the deadline, I'm just particularly annoyed that this mix turned out so small and was wondering if anyone else could share some tips.

[garret]

Heya Colin...  

If you're hearing where your mix falls flat, that's a great first step.  Getting frustrated while you're learning a craft is normal... It's actually a good sign, because it means your ears are developing.

Just keep at it for a few years, get feedback from people on your mixes, always improve, and eventually you'll be frustrated only some of the time.

Maybe we should get together, and I can take a look at what you're doing... evaluate your monitoring situation, etc.   (I'm in town...)

PM me if you want to get some in-person help... sometimes a half hour of someone's hands-on time are more valuable than a million words on the internets.


Cheers,
-G

(edit.. to be clear, I haven't had a chance to listen to your mix yet.. the above is just general encouragement...)

[rankus]

Another thought is that if your mix sounds good in your room, but does not travel well,  there may be acoustic problems with your room... (not enough bass trapping / comb filtering / standing waves / etc.)

[NelsonL]

Dissatisfaction makes your work better and better over time.

[j.hall]

i could tweak on the same song forever.  a band will give me hard copies of a project i did and i'll still find things that should be changed.

on that note,  i'll listen to this mix in the next day or so and comment in detail about what i'm hearing, and what i think.

this is EXACTLY why IMP exists.  to level the playing field down to every one having the exact same tracks.

if one mix rules and another doesn't, you know exactly what they started with.....

i'll be back.  just buried at the moment.  be patient with me.

[j.hall]

your mix is a bit light in the mids, HOWEVER, this mix mastered would stand up pretty well.

in all honesty, i think you just didn't go far enough in some of your treatments.

my rule of thumb i try to pass on is, "if it doesn't sound awesome enough, keep twisting the knob and stop looking at the meters/graphs"

[jimmyjazz]

I haven't listened to any of the IMP mixes, but this one sounds pretty good.  It could stand a BIT more edge, but for goodness' sake, cut yourself a break.  It's good, and better yet, I like the mix decisions.  They add to the song's impact without selling it out.

Good job.

[jimmyjazz]

Also, if you felt your bounced mix was solid in your room, either compared to the master or other IMP submissions, then either your monitor chain lacks resolution or it's not the "bounce to disk" process that's killing the mix in your car.

[Colin Larson]

thanks for all the replies.. I didn't mean to sound so negative about it, I actually like the little delay pitchshifter thing I did on the one vocal break, but anyways.

I guess my main problem is I can't get mixes to translate very well, and I suppose it's my monitoring situation.  But I do live sound by trade so I really don't have any money to invest in the proper bass trapping and such for my little control room.  I have to imagine there's someone out there who overcame such a thing, how'd you guys do it?  Should I just exaggerate my volume increases, things like that?  I'm looking for like.. taller and wider mixes.

Guess the short answer is practice, eh?

[grantis]

Colin Larson wrote on Tue, 13 May 2008 23:59

thanks for all the replies.. I didn't mean to sound so negative about it, I actually like the little delay pitchshifter thing I did on the one vocal break, but anyways. I guess my main problem is I can't get mixes to translate very well, and I suppose it's my monitoring situation.  But I do live sound by trade so I really don't have any money to invest in the proper bass trapping and such for my little control room.  I have to imagine there's someone out there who overcame such a thing, how'd you guys do it?  Should I just exaggerate my volume increases, things like that?  I'm looking for like.. taller and wider mixes. Guess the short answer is practice, eh?

Yeah man, I'm sort of a noob like you are, and I find that whenever I'm not practicing, my mixes take a step backwards.  

Practice practice practice.

[j.hall]

wider mixes = harder panning

taller mixes = more compression (kinda)

overcoming your acoustics = headphones.

[grantis]

j.hall wrote on Wed, 14 May 2008 09:48

overcoming your acoustics = headphones.

Amen to that.  

Although this presents a whole new world of challenges to deal with.  IE, in my own experience, I tend to leave things that are in the center of the mix too quiet (especially vocals)...etc.  You'll just have to get used to it.

...But on a budget, it's a great solution.

[garret]

Another suggestion for mixing in an acoustically challenging space:  The near field is your friend.  Space your monitors just a few feet apart, and sit close to them.

I have to say I find it incredibly difficult to mix on headphones.  But maybe I haven't tried any good enough... the best I have are about $100 a pair.

I do use headphones to get a fresh perspective on a mix.. particularly the high end (10khz+)... I can hear noisy source material and sibilance better on headphones.

[grantis]

garret wrote on Wed, 14 May 2008 12:55

Another suggestion for mixing in an acoustically challenging space:  The near field is your friend.  Space your monitors just a few feet apart, and sit close to them. I have to say I find it incredibly difficult to mix on headphones.  But maybe I haven't tried any good enough... the best I have are about $100 a pair. I do use headphones to get a fresh perspective on a mix.. particularly the high end (10khz+)... I can hear noisy source material and sibilance better on headphones.

If you really want to look into trying this, invest in a pair of Sennheiser HD-580's.  They've been out of production for about 2 years, but you can still find them pretty easily.  It'll run ya about $150.