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Author Topic: Mini massive M7 and K47 test  (Read 32455 times)

MDM,

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2008, 02:29:44 PM »

I'm curious to know about the PVC, perhaps Geffel makes it's own because they are looking for certain mechanical characteristics.

I wonder if the thiersch just needs to age.. or not.
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rodabod

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2008, 07:35:23 PM »

My comments for the male vocal are that the Thiersch PVC and Neumann PVC were preferable basically because they had a fuller sound and were relatively softer to my ears. I found the Gefell PVC to sound "small" and thinner than the rest and did not like it so much.

For the soft acoustic guitar I found Dale's M7 and the Neumann PVC preferable which had a softness which I thought worked better compared to the rest.

I think Dale has done a very good job.
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Roddy Bell

matti

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2008, 08:27:14 PM »

Martin, are these curves measured with or without the mic's grill?
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Martin Kantola

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2008, 04:38:03 PM »

Yes, these measurements are done using the "loudspeaker" files, with a complete microphone and swapping heads containing different capsules.

Please note that what the curves attempt to show is the difference of each of these capsules compared to the original Neumann. So, any effect of the grille should not show up at all, because all capsules had a Neumann grille (please see the photos). The only exception might be the Gefell which has a different capsule holder as noted.

Martin

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Bob Schwenkler

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2008, 08:54:43 PM »

So I took a little time and listened through all the files. I created an excel sheet to chart my responses.

I rated from 1-6 for my preference with each individual capsule for each file. 1 is highest rating and 6 is lowest rating. I tallied up the total points for each capsule at the bottom of the chart, so a lower number will mean it scored better.

As an extra comment, I have to say that I really liked the character of capsule 2 but it was consistently dark sounding. It would be really great to have around as a character mic, but not as a go-to mic.

I actually still haven't looked at the answers to which mic is which. I think I'll do that now!

This is a great resource for me as I'm planning on building a pair of LD mics in the future and an M7 based mic is toward the top of my list. Thanks for the comparison Martin!


http://www.bicyclerecordings.com/various/M7chart.png

Bob Schwenkler

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2008, 08:58:59 PM »

Damn! The one that came out as far better scoring is the Neumann PVC. Trying to find two of these in good condition seems like it could be very difficult!

I am also surprised that the Gefell PVC came out ranking so poorly!

Bob Schwenkler

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2008, 09:09:02 PM »

Looking at the frequency response charts it seems like I can see that the Gefell PVC and the Ulan have some funniness in the 4-5k and 500-600 hz range, respectively. These mics I consistently picked out as having some phasiness or resonance in an unpleasing way.

It looks like the Neumann K47 didn't make it into the test which is a bummer for me. It's a currently available capsule and is well regarded. How does this capsule compare sonically to the M7?

Martin Kantola

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2008, 10:29:34 PM »

That's fantastic work Bob! Thank you for sharing.

I'd be happy to do a new test with a K47 included at some point.  Which M7:s should I use to compare with? Any other ideas?

Martin
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2008, 03:56:42 AM »

Martin Kantola wrote on Mon, 10 November 2008 19:29


I'd be happy to do a new test with a K47 included at some point.  Which M7 should I use to compare with? Any other ideas?


Yes. Next week I will report on a new M7 PVC capsule of which I received a test sample and which impressed me as a possible path forward from historic models.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
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Bob Schwenkler

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2008, 01:47:24 PM »

Martin Kantola wrote on Mon, 10 November 2008 19:29

That's fantastic work Bob! Thank you for sharing.

I'd be happy to do a new test with a K47 included at some point.  Which M7:s should I use to compare with? Any other ideas?

Martin


It's tough to say. My first response would be to hear it against the Neumann PVC. But (for my own personal agenda) I wonder if it would be more practial to hear it against some of your currently available models.

Thinking about it more, I'd prefer to hear the Neumann PVC. Second choice would be the Wagner PE as it came in a tie for second place.

Do Thiersch and Wagner sell their capsules individually? I wonder how indicative this particular Thiersch PVC is of his general output of this model. I also wonder if it could be tuned a bit brighter during production?

MDM,

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2008, 03:33:57 PM »

Klaus Heyne wrote on Tue, 11 November 2008 02:56

Martin Kantola wrote on Mon, 10 November 2008 19:29


I'd be happy to do a new test with a K47 included at some point.  Which M7 should I use to compare with? Any other ideas?


Yes. Next week I will report on a new M7 PVC capsule of which I received a test sample and which impressed me as a possible path forward from historic models.




hurrah!

does this person also reskin?
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music.
John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States

Klaus Heyne

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2008, 04:43:39 PM »

Yes.

More in a new thread soon.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Eric H.

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2009, 12:38:40 PM »

chlpark wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 11:30

Without a doubt, there was a capsule that stood above the rest throughout the listening test: The Neumann. For me it simply has a character of making you ‘being there’ that the others lack. I was specially impressed by the way it deals with the transients and how the different ways of attacking the strings are transmitted. As for the rest, my second and third choice would be the Wagner and the Thiersch PE.
Lou Ximenez


I found the exact same thing.

Most of the time, the other ones only showed boring sound (in comparison). With maybe the exception of the Thiersch PVC.

But, if i learned something about listening tests, it is that the order of listening counts. the lenght here was really appropriate. But i feel there should be markers in this kind of test. If you have 6 capsules to include in the test, make at least an 8 samples list, with redundant capsules.
The first and last position is also tricky. I've found the way we listen is not at all linear.

Klaus, what about this new M7??
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eric harizanos

Klaus Heyne

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2009, 04:12:12 PM »

I have been retesting several times since I first posted, and am currently retesting once more, to make sure that what I hear is accurate and withstands repetition under different circumstances and mics.

Report to follow soon.



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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Arf! Mastering

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Re: Mini massive M7 and K47 test
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2009, 12:17:59 PM »

I've had a new pair of Thiersch Elektroacoustic's blue line PVC M7s for some months but have not mounted them for not wanting to cannibalize an existing mount.    STE now offers properly sized mounting rings, so I hope to finally hear these as soon as the rings arrive.

http://www.thiersch-mic.de/en/estm_produkte.html

index.php/fa/10848/0/
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