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Author Topic: Thrice, The Alchemist Index  (Read 6835 times)

j.hall

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2008, 05:53:16 pm »

hard rock is the hardest genre to mix well, IMO.
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Phillip Graham

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2008, 12:00:40 am »

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.

Volumes 3 and 4 are better than the first two, I would say sonically and otherwise.  Earth sounds like it was entirely recorded in the same space.

"As The Crow Flies" and "The Lion and the Wolf" are really going to confuse the emo kiddies...

Make sure to listen to Earth last.  It ends with a brilliant idea, if one not executed perfectly.
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Phillip Graham

grantis

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 12:01:22 am »

Quote:

hard rock is the hardest genre to mix well, IMO.


now, i've pondered this before.  why is that?  is it because there's such a preconception of what hard rock SHOULD sound like?  

i dunno.
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Grant Craig
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grantis

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 12:02:24 am »

Quote:

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.


ahhh!  i'm excited!

what styles are they?
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Grant Craig
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Phillip Graham

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 12:18:27 am »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:02

Quote:

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.


ahhh!  i'm excited!

what styles are they?


Air is kind of random,  It opens with a song (Broken Lungs) that would have fit well on Vheissu, followed by this Rhodes tinged powerpop number (including handclaps!).  The third song would fit on a Sigur Ros or Explosions in the Sky record.

Daedulus, the 4th song, is the lyrical counterpoint to "Melting Point of Wax" on Artist in the Ambulance.  Its fairly heavy with a bit of alt-country twang (ala "The Earth Will Shake" on Vheissu).

Air finishes with a sort of acoustic chamber pop song, and an electronic number (Silver Wings) that would fit ok on Kid A, or on Water.

Earth is variations on bluesy/jazzy roots rock.  There is a little mandolin, upright piano, accordion.  It ends with a piano + layered vocal track with a twist at the end that fits the song very well.

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Phillip Graham

grantis

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 12:23:13 am »

Quote:

Earth is variations on bluesy/jazzy roots rock. There is a little mandolin, upright piano, accordion. It ends with a piano + layered vocal track with a twist at the end that fits the song very well.



can't wait!
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Grant Craig
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Phillip Graham

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 11:50:53 am »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:01

Quote:

hard rock is the hardest genre to mix well, IMO.


now, i've pondered this before.  why is that?  is it because there's such a preconception of what hard rock SHOULD sound like?  

i dunno.


I think hard rock does have some preconceptions about what the sounds should be like.  Certainly stuff should be "big."  Stuff is usually pretty dry, too.

Hard rock is the classic 10lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag, in terms of sonic landscape.  Especially these days as band try to throw in crazy instruments on top of the wall of guitars.

Its interesting that some of the best regarded hard rock records (e.g. RATM, Soundgarden, AC/DC) also tend to be more sparely arranged.

I suppose it at least partly goes back to Mutt Lang and AC/DC, where the kick drum became a primary player in the mix.  Its been more of everything ever since.  I think the Metallica Black album was another turning point, or at least is the big record I am aware of, that signaled the end of 80's hair metal gated cheeseverbiness.

Having watched a good friend really learn how to mix modern hard rock (see http://www.myspace.com/afterthetragedy or http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewpro file&friendid=2744699) over the course of a couple of years, I have picked up a lot of insights for my live sound work, and about mixing this stuff in general.

I think the two biggest lessons are: 1. the raw tones have to be really solid, and smooth; 2. make everything fit in the mix.  If it takes a 15dB cut a sixth octave wide to remove a problem, then do it.  Number 2 feeds number 1, if the raw tones aren't balanced they don't survive such drastic manipulation.

Another lesson, I would say, is that compressor release times really matter in hard rock.  Attacks are almost always going from "fast" to "very fast" in this stuff, so the release envelope has a huge effect on the tone/bounce/movement of instruments in the track.

My friend's mastering engineer of choice also really likes an extra 5dB'ish of snare to play with in the raw mix, but that is not universal by any means.  The snare in the pre-master mixes noted above will plaster your eyeballs into your skull.

Would love to hear J's thoughts on this...
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Phillip Graham

T. Mueller

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 12:05:03 pm »

Phillip Graham wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 23:18

grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:02

Quote:

So, I downloaded the leak today, real thing comes Tuesday.


ahhh!  i'm excited!

what styles are they?


Air finishes with a sort of acoustic chamber pop song, and an electronic number (Silver Wings) that would fit ok on Kid A, or on Water.





That first track off of Water might as well have had the organ/electric piano part from Everything in Its Right Place.  Anyone else notice that?
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j.hall

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2008, 01:28:05 pm »

i think the game of "what it should sound like" is not relevant to the difficulty level of mixing hard rock well.

i think it all boils down to density.  in hard rock, EVERY element is supposed to be HUGE and in your face.

the hardest thing to get right is the guitars.  as soon as they arrive in the mix they start ruining everything else.  not only do they require perfect tonal balance, but they have to be loud.  both things just wreck a mix.

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Phillip Graham

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2008, 12:35:42 pm »

grant richard wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 00:23

Quote:

Earth is variations on bluesy/jazzy roots rock. There is a little mandolin, upright piano, accordion. It ends with a piano + layered vocal track with a twist at the end that fits the song very well.



can't wait!


Both 3 and 4 are now streaming on the thrice myspace page, if you can suffer the awful myspace player audio...

http://www.myspace.com/thrice
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Phillip Graham

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Re: Thrice, The Alchemist Index
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2008, 04:07:16 pm »

I'm going check them out tomorrow night with Circa Survive. I bought both cd's from the alchemy index a few days ago to get prepared for the show. I love the diversity of songs presented. I do agree that Fire is a bit midrangy, nonetheless it still rocks hard. Riley's drum patterns and tone are also exceptional on fire.
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