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[bblackwood]

Dave sent me this pic this afternoon. Avocet is finally finished...

[jfrigo]

This is similar to Manley's current approach in that the controls are in a separate box from the rack mountable guts and I/O. My question is, how would I rack mount this square control box into my console? And if I did manage it, it sure would be an inefficient use of space. I suppose DAW guys are more the market, evidenced by the talkback facilities, and they'll put it table top. In my mastering workflow, that won't work for me, but luckily a custom solution is easy enough that it's no matter.

[bblackwood]

jfrigo wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 21:48

In my mastering workflow, that won't work for me, but luckily a custom solution is easy enough that it's no matter.

What did you use before DC brought his custom monitor controller in?

[jazzius]

 

[jfrigo]

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 19:54

jfrigo wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 21:48 In my mastering workflow, that won't work for me, but luckily a custom solution is easy enough that it's no matter. What did you use before DC brought his custom monitor controller in?

Originally before everybody and his brother had a DAW monitor box available,  I had a Bryston BP-20 as that was about the only damned thing out there. I almost got one from Classe as they had well built monitor controllers with XLR I/O. The Bryston was pretty good, but I was never entirely happy with it. I had originally looked into custom solutions from several sources (Forsell, Millennia, even API) but they were either uninterested in doing it, wanted it to be far more complex than I wanted, or would charge two arms and a leg and a half. I still own the Bryston, but won't ever go back to it (It's for sale BTW).

When Dave arrived we also briefly played with the knob in the Benchmark just to prove it made sound while he was getting the box together, and while it indeed made noise, it certainly wasn't a long term solution. It was less functional, less robust, less accurate, but it was pretty transparent to the sound of that DAC. Luckily, soon after that, the Lavrys and monitor controller came into being.

What did you use in the old days back at Ardent? I think you had Dave Hill put a little something together toward the end didn't you? But what was it before that?

[bblackwood]

jfrigo wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 03:07

What did you use in the old days back at Ardent? I think you had Dave Hill put a little something together toward the end didn't you? But what was it before that?

Another custom built box, but that one was active. Sounded good as well, but not as good as the Crane Song or my current custom box...

[jfrigo]

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 04:00

jfrigo wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 03:07 What did you use in the old days back at Ardent? I think you had Dave Hill put a little something together toward the end didn't you? But what was it before that? Another custom built box, but that one was active. Sounded good as well, but not as good as the Crane Song or my current custom box...

That's what we all try to do: march from good to very good to excellent.

This got me thinking of some of my other gear upgrades through time. I started with several things that still are good, some that were excellent for their time, but none of the original pieces are still in daily service (but a few I still own). The latest rig is definitely better and has improved steadily and incrementally, and isn't through yet! I still have a few things on my current wish list.

Some of the old things that specifically came to mind include a customized Meridian 18 bit DAC that I used as my monitor DAC back in the day. For the time, that was a really serious machine. The Apogee AD500E A/D converter was also the cat's meow at the time. Neither of those would I touch with a 10 foot pole today.

One of my early mastering pieces was the t.c M5000 with the MD2 mastering software. At the time it had the multiband comp, the soft limit (I think they call it soft clip now) but they hadn't even released the "toolbox" yet with the EQ (they could have left that one off!) and phase meter etc. I got a lot of mileage out of that box. That's one of those pieces that is still "good", but no longer quite in the excellent category with new things like t.c. 6000s and L2s around.

[mantovibe]

jfrigo wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 21:48

Luckily, soon after that, the Lavrys and monitor controller came into being.

Hello.
I would like to kindly ask jfrigo a question: which monitor controller are you referring to? Your own custom made ones (perhaps?).
Also, I am kind of assuming that the Lavrys mentioned above are the "blue" ones.

I also would like to re-ask ad old question to Brad.
Now that you have the venerable Avocet, did you a/b it with your Lavry Blue/custom monitor controller combo?
The Avocet is at the very top of my "to be purchased list" but I somehow have a feeling that Lavry+adequate level attenuator would be the most "transparent" way to do monitoring, minus of course the superb functionality that the Avocet comes with.

Thank you guys for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Renzo mantovani

[bblackwood]

Hi Renzo. I do not have an Avocet yet, though it's signal path is built on the same design as the console Crane Song built for me. I'll have ot hear it against my current console, but, like you, would be surprised if it didn't color the sound a tad compared to a well implemented passive design...

[jfrigo]

mantovibe wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 16:29

I would like to kindly ask jfrigo a question: which monitor controller are you referring to? Your own custom made ones (perhaps?). Also, I am kind of assuming that the Lavrys mentioned above are the "blue" ones.

It's a Lavry blue DAC and an AD-122 from d.b. technologies (what Dan Lavry's company was called before the name change). The monitor controller is a custom built box by Dave Collins. We've also been using a new 96k AD which is likewise a DC custom.

Quote:

The Avocet is at the very top of my "to be purchased list" but I somehow have a feeling that Lavry+adequate level attenuator would be the most "transparent" way to do monitoring, minus of course the superb functionality that the Avocet comes with.

For less than $1,000 in parts you can build a simple yet very transparent passive monitor controller. All you need is a custom attenuator like the one in the DC-built box we use, or Brad's DC-coached box (bridged T with Holcos, or bridged H if you really need balanced, but you probably don't), a three position switch to go from stereo to mono to mute, the XLR connectors, a little wire, and a box to put it all in. For just a little more you can add a source selector as well. If you want meters, multiple sources and destinations, inserts and the like, you start heading into the more complex and ore expensive territory of Brad's new baby.

Which reminds me - Brad, what are you using for metering and how are you feeding it? I think I remember you saying you had some Dorroughs? I assume you built in some kind of feed from the monitor console?

[bblackwood]

jfrigo wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 21:30

Which reminds me - Brad, what are you using for metering and how are you feeding it? I think I remember you saying you had some Dorroughs? I assume you built in some kind of feed from the monitor console?

There's a fixed output (pre-attenuator) which feeds both sets of meters in a custom meter panel - pair of VUs and a Dorrough 280...

[Ed Littman]

If you dont want to build a console or spend the big bucks, this is what i finally did.....

got two mytek stereo96 dac's(with gain controls)going into a coleman m3ph with stepped attenuator in .5 db steps 4 source select buttons, 3 speeker selects(the 3rd was wired to output to my dorroughs 40-c's), & mono & l/r mute buttons.

This finally works good for me. I can controll the level of both the pre & post proccesed program for accurate a/b listening, & have a passive master monitor controll too. All together this setup is arround $3000 but with some decent converters to boot.
ed

[mantovibe]

     
Thank you guys for sharing.
In this moment of refininment of my set up, this kind of information is of great value to me.
BTW, where can I find some detail on the subject of Brad's DC-coached box (bridged T with Holcos, or bridged H) mentioned by Jay?
And again, Jay, you have mentioned Dave Collins. Is he an electronics designer (forgive my ignorance if he is well known..) that builds this kind of boxes on a custom order basis?

Anyhow, it sounds like it will be hard to beat the Avocet in price/performance once you start adding features to a custom made monitor controller, not to mention the ability in the future to upgrade to 5.1 which, I heard, Dave Hill has allowed in the design.

[jfrigo]

mantovibe wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 23:50

BTW, where can I find some detail on the subject of Brad's DC-coached box (bridged T with Holcos, or bridged H) mentioned by Jay? And again, Jay, you have mentioned Dave Collins. Is he an electronics designer (forgive my ignorance if he is well known..) that builds this kind of boxes on a custom order basis?

Dave Collins (Also known simply as "DC") is a well known mastering engineer who also happens to be a talented designer. He participates on this board and will answer questions, but beware of his dry sense of humor... He and I also happen to have been working in the same room for the past year and a half.

There was another thread in this forum recently where Brad had a picture of his newly built console and DC and he made some comments about the parts list and where you could get the 2k5 bridged T attenuator in question (and they could also make the "H" version). Look for the thread entitled "How's the new board coming". If you aren't satisfied with that source, there are several other places you could get an attenuator such as this made. I think Shallco has one available. Look here:
http://www.shallco.com/audio.html

[mantovibe]

Jay, thank you!

[jfrigo]

mantovibe wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 09:15

Jay, thank you!

Prego!