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[CHANCE]

WOW this is a hard topic. Something I have discovered is that you can not force God on someone. Before I became a Christian (a real Christian), many people kept trying to shove Jesus down my throat. I now know that it doesn't work that way. It wasn't until I started seeking (truly seeking), that I found this amazing gift. It in no way can be explained. The bible calls it "a peace that surpasses all human understanding". This has had a great influence on our planet. If anyone doubts it, just imagine that your car breaks down late at night in a bad part of town. You then see four large people walking toward you. Wouldn't you be relieved knowing that those four people were actually on their way home from a late night bible study?

[maxim]

as long as they're not wearing white hoods...

[Jay Kadis]

CHANCE wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 05:59

. Wouldn't you be relieved knowing that those four people were actually on their way home from a late night bible study?

I'd be just as relieved if they were on their way home from a library study session.

[Harland]

cerberus wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 07:13

the womb is a -relatively- protected and comfortable place for every human who has ever lived. jeff dinces

I think the womb has been a terror and a hell for millions of fetuses who have managed to survive despite alcohol abuse, drug abuse, accidents, domestic violence, attempted abortion, rape, the terror of the mother due to any number of things like war, ethnic cleansing, racial exterminations - and that all in our 'civilized' world, nevermind what went on in the thousands or millions of years prior to civilization.

The 'return to the womb' thing is a worn out idea which is completely off the mark.

[mgod]

Harland wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 09:34

I think the womb has been a terror and a hell for millions of fetuses who have managed to survive despite alcohol abuse, drug abuse, accidents, domestic violence, attempted abortion, rape, the terror of the mother due to any number of things like war, ethnic cleansing, racial exterminations - and that all in our 'civilized' world, nevermind what went on in the thousands or millions of years prior to civilization.

That might account for all the wildly differing ideas about god though.

DS

[cerberus]

Harland wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 12:34

cerberus wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 07:13 the womb is a -relatively- protected and comfortable place for every human who has ever lived. The 'return to the womb' thing is a worn out idea which is completely off the mark.

harland; i will be honest. i am not convinced of monotheism.
because maybe there is more than one universe.
maybe there is not one singular... anything?

a biblical contradiction that imo will never be solved here:

try to pass a camel through the eye of a needle. i think
that would be quite impossible. or does it happen?
and here we all are in hell. nobody is going
to argue matthew out of the blatent
hypocrisy we all see everywhere.

unless the physicists can reach their unified theory, then prove it.
so many want this. i wonder if it will ever happen. einstein
spent the end of his life looking for it , unsuccessfully.
some say he wasted years, he -believed-. i hope
that might be solved in my lifetime.

dan; is the qu'ran in your stack of books?  i always can find
something better to do than read the qu'ran
(and i claim that i am "tolerant").

jeff dinces

[maxim]

"because maybe there is more than one universe"

there are >5,000,000,000 universes, and that's just within the human race...

[cerberus]

max;  i just went looking for this beauteous song  which has that very idea
in it's lyrics, and i am moved to tears when i hear this song:
not only this, but i feel "god". a space is filled when i
hear beatle george sing about his own death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1E5XPzBSBY

to the believers in the "word". the word is love.
but i feel cold to the bible. it does not do
for me what one five minute song
can do. i am sorry. (but i am in
the right forum for this...)

jeff dinces

[MagnetoSound]

cerberus wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 22:43

max;  i just went looking for this beauteous song  which has that very idea in it's lyrics, and i am moved to tears when i hear this song: not only this, but i feel "god". a space is filled when i hear beatle george sing about his own death. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1E5XPzBSBY to the believers in the "word". the word is love. but i feel cold to the bible. it does not do for me what one five minute song can do. i am sorry. (but i am in the right forum for this...) jeff dinces

Jeff, perfect post, thanks.


Dan

[Harland]

As I understand it, the 'camel through the eye of a needle' (or maybe 'the' needle) is a metaphor based on a particular city gate or entrance which was called the eye of the needle because it was very narrow and designed for security (maybe akin to a turnstile) Can't remember where I got that from. But it's in reference to the difficulty a rich man has in getting to heaven, or generally the trap of material possession.

[Barry Hufker]

I believe your description to be correct...

[Bill_Urick]

"I believe the whole concept of monotheism is a gift from the gods" -Emo Phillips

[mgod]

cerberus wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 14:03

dan; is the qu'ran in your stack of books?  i always can find something better to do than read the qu'ran (and i claim that i am "tolerant"). jeff dinces

Hi Jeff, no its not, but thats only because I don't know where to start. I have a new friend moving to town this summer who's a bit of an expert on the Gita, and who also has problems with the qu'ran, and I'm hoping we can do something together.

There're so many translations. Where to begin? The only copy of the NT  I have was a gift from Jim Keltner, which he gave me so we could read passages together over the phone. I wouldn't have known where to start picking one, but getting one from someone who loves me is a logical place. Jim is the only person in the music world who would have the conversation with me without trying to force his view on me. I believe Bob Zimmerman was the first who'd have the conversation with Jim, back in the "Serve Somebody" days.

Thanks btw for the George. He's always the reason for the season for me. JK gave me a copy of the Joshua Green book about him, "Here Comes the Sun". A very interesting read. I recommend it. Some years ago Jim and I would be deep into these talks and he'd get a beep, and come back and say "Its George, I'll ask him what he thinks..."

DS

[PookyNMR]

Jeff, I've read the Qu'ran.  There are reliable translations available from Muslim scholars.  There's even some versions online if you want to take a peek at it.  The first 11 Suras are probably the ones that you'll find the most interesting.

[wwittman]

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Thu, 17 April 2008 03:48

Fascinating perhaps in the same way that some of the more colourful religions are fascinating. What utter drivel! I can't understand how some non-believers manage to try supporting their position with speculation that's just as lacking in scientific rigour as that which they're hoping to drive out. This "theory" is an ad-hoc concoction that does not make falsifiable (=testable) predictions, and neither does any of its premises. This piece of epistemological rubbish isn't worth the hard disk space it's written on. .

I tend to agree with you... but of course that puts it exactly on par with every religion.