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Author Topic: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god  (Read 13374 times)

bruno putzeys

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #105 on: April 25, 2008, 02:29:23 am »

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 01:32

The translators are not stupid people.  They are experts at what they do.

That is exactly my point. A translation that simply lists alternate translations for each keyword undoes the added value of a translator (conveying meaning, not words). For everyone but trained exegetes a "normal" translation is highly preferable over one that attempts to be complete in such a na
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dcollins

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #106 on: April 25, 2008, 05:39:07 am »

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 23:29


That is exactly my point. A translation that simply lists alternate translations for each keyword undoes the added value of a translator (conveying meaning, not words).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

It's a hoax.

DC

studiojimi

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #107 on: April 25, 2008, 10:06:14 am »

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 23:29

. Trying to argue the factual accuracy of any text based on linguistics alone is about as meaningful as trying to argue the boiling point of water based on nothing but logic.



Translate this simple text:

God loves you.

So do I.

Studiojimi
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #108 on: April 25, 2008, 10:27:25 am »

Bruno,

I'm sorry to have misunderstood some of your points.  Whether you're a believer or not does not have any bearing (I hope) as to how I understand and reply to your postings.  You make an excellent point as to how well things can be translated and then understood by the reader.

There are in fact many different attempts ("styles") to make the Bible understood for each type of reader, as Nathan stated previously.  The Amplified Bible has its place for those wanting that kind of translation.

Let me re-state something I've said in several postings (other threads), many Christians believe the Bible to be the very word of God - and they believe it to be inerrant in the original writing.  That last phrase is very important.  BUT.  Belief in the Bible's accuracy has nothing to do with salvation.  One can be saved never having known of the Bible, read it or believe it to be the inerrant word of God.  So how it is understood or not ultimately means little.  Again, however, understanding it is a gift from God who guides and explains.

Let me also say how much I appreciate your taking time to join this kind of conversation.  I greatly respect you, as I do the others, and am glad you participate here.
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maxim

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #109 on: April 25, 2008, 09:23:33 pm »

"One can be saved never having known of the Bible, read it or believe it to be the inerrant word of God. "

well said, barry!
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Brian Kehew

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2008, 06:03:28 am »

I'm inclined to agree a bit with the VERY first post. However, I also believe it NOT to be true, and to also BE true. Having seen a few things, I understand that things are not really "this" or "that". Even facts or realities.




The mind is a funny f***er. Every time you "know" something, or have figured it out, you are on the way to being wrong, your mind has created a little inflexible box of its own.

(Or maybe not - as I just stated something I "know", therefore... See how hard it is?)
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studiojimi

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2008, 10:29:33 am »

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 23:29


I can't see where I was trying to make that point. I'm saying that translating *any* text is a highly difficult balancing act, and that trying to render a translation more accurate by simply listing alternative meanings is counterproductive.




Mr. Putzey and other seekers of truth:
(who will find if they seek)


there is no need to ramble and complicate a very simple Truth.


God is love.

God is the Ultimate Creative Intelligence  (UCI)

God so loves you.

His LAW of reciprocation (giving and receiving)

requires you to work with it to be happy, healthy and free

of negative challenge.  

We all all have negative challenge as we all break the LAW.

But IF

one works with and puts in some study time diligently

in order to become educated to fully understand

the LAW of the grand design of UCI (the GREAT computer),

you will be happier and  more prosperous.

there will be no degrees or mensa awards given for this.

just a peace that surpasses all human levels of understanding

as the hunger of the soul and spirit in each and everyone of us

craves the peace of God's love defined by God's LAW

whether the realizing has occured yet or not.

This LAW is unfailing and everlasting.

Hence, it might be a good idea to love back that which loves you

so much to have created you as wonderfully as UCI has.

It's only right.

Would you only take love from your wife and not give to her?

Reciprocation is required

to have a perfect outworking of the LAW but not enforced as wonderful you have UCI's gift of free will

which also when used properly to Realize

(with your real eyes--your spiritual eyes)

your oneness with UCI.


God's love law--(a mighty swift sword of great goodness)

of giving and receiving is the Ultimate piece of GEAR.

the plugin (if you will) of your wildest dreams.....

the following meditation

is a way to affirm and demonstrate one's choice

to say yes to love and affirm

the Truth of abundance and prosperity

that is your Divine Birth Right as a child/creation of UCI.

The following is from a daily inspiration book i read.

i read them aloud with a gratitude attidude of power dominion and authority for best results and highest levels of consciousness awareness raising.

i hope you enjoy it and will try it.

my hope and prayer is for you all

to have a most prosperous and eventful day!

i know i will

for i have invested in the LAW

by loving you right now with these words.

(most quantum physicists believe in some form of UCI)

UCI is known by many names and answers all calls.

This one is written
by a terrific Jamaican lady named Sheila McKeithen
and is a great ushering technique to show love for that which loves YOU like the best thing He/She/It every made:

I LOVE YOU!

Dear God,

I love you!
I love you for the many blessings
experienced over the years.
 Some of these blessings
have faded from my memory
while others linger
so clearly
in my awareness.
 I love you
for them ALL.
I just love you.

I love you, God!  
I love you
in times of seeming trouble.
I love you
when I 'm standing tall
perceiving the lavish abundance
everywhere.  
I love you
when I think
of the unlimited access
that every person has
to your unlimited bounty
of good.
I just love you.

I love you, God!
I love you for being God;
for being the good
that every soul seeks;
for being the life,
love, wisdom, and power
of everyone everywhere.
I love you
for being the very substance
from which formed existence
emerges.
I love you for being
Omnipresence (everywhere),
Omnipotence (all the power)
and
Omniscience (all the knowledge).
I just love you.
I know
that you love me, too."

" . . . I have loved you with an everlasting love . . . "
Jeremiah 31:3
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2008, 12:17:35 pm »

The mind is a funny f***er. Every time you "know" something, or have figured it out, you are on the way to being wrong, your mind has created a little inflexible box of its own.

(Or maybe not - as I just stated something I "know", therefore... See how hard it is?)


For the most part I agree with you.  I find that to be true every day of my life.  The only difference in this instance is God.  He identifies the truth and explains it.

For everything else I don't know shit from Shinola.
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studiojimi

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2008, 01:56:13 pm »

always glad to help out barry....

index.php/fa/8647/0/


there is nothing arrogant preachy about knowing what you know

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CHANCE

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2008, 02:32:16 pm »

Some bible thumpers might find this interesting. Nothing to base your faith on, but it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.


The Gospel in Genesis


Meanings Of The Names In Genesis 5
We frequently use the familiar term, gospel, or good news. Where is the first place it appears in the Bible? The answer may surprise you.

An Integrated Message

The great discovery is that the Bible is a message system: it's not simply 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, the Bible is an integrated whole which bears evidence of supernatural engineering in every detail.

The Jewish rabbis have a quaint way of expressing this very idea: they say that they will not understand the Scriptures until the Messiah comes. But when He comes, He will not only interpret each of the passages for us, He will interpret the very words; He will even interpret the very letters themselves; in fact, He will even interpret the spaces between the letters!

When I first heard this, I simply dismissed this as a colorful exaggeration. Until I reread Matthew 5:17 and 18:

"Think not that I have come to destroy the Torah and the prophets; I have not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
(A jot and tittle are the Hebrew equivalent of our dotting an i and the crossing of a t.)

An Example

A remarkable example of this can be glimpsed in Genesis Chapter 5, where we have the genealogy of Adam through Noah. This is one of those chapters which we often tend to skim over quickly as we pass through Genesis it's simply a genealogy from Adam to Noah.

But God always rewards the diligent student. Let's examine this chapter more closely.

In our Bible, we read the Hebrew names. What do these names mean in English?

A Study of Original Roots

The meaning of proper names can be a difficult pursuit since a direct translation is often not readily available. Even a conventional Hebrew lexicon can prove disappointing. A study of the original roots, however, can yield some fascinating insights.

(A caveat: many study aids, such as a conventional lexicon, can prove rather superficial when dealing with proper nouns. Furthermore, views concerning the meanings of original roots are not free of controversy and variant readings.)

Let's take an example.

The Flood Judgment

Methuselah comes from muth, a root that means "death";1 and from shalach, which means to bring, or to send forth. The name Methuselah means, "his death shall bring".2

Methuselah's father was given a prophecy of the coming Great Flood, and was apparently told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be brought or sent forth.

(Can you imagine raising a kid like that? Every time the boy caught a cold, the entire neighborhood must have panicked!)

And, indeed, the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.3

It is interesting that Methuselah's life, in effect, was a symbol of God's mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood.

Therefore, it is fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible, speaking of the extensiveness of God's mercy.

The Other Names

If there is such significance in Methuselah's name, let's examine the other names to see what may lie behind them.

Adam's name means man. As the first man, that seems straight forward enough.

Seth

Adam's son was named Seth, which means appointed. Eve said, "For God hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."4

Enosh

Seth's son was called Enosh, which means mortal, frail, or miserable. It is from the root anash, to be incurable, used of a wound, grief, woe, sickness, or wickedness.

It was in the days of Enosh that men began to defile the name of the Living God.5

Kenan

Enosh's son was named Kenan, which can mean sorrow, dirge, or elegy. (The precise denotation is somewhat elusive; some study aids unfortunately presume that Kenan is synonymous with Cainan.)

Balaam, looking down from the heights of Moab, uses a pun upon the name of the Kenites when he prophesies their destruction.6

We have no real idea as to why these names were chosen for their children. Often they may have referred to circumstances at birth, and so on.

Mahalalel

Kenan's son was Mahalalel, from Mahalal which means blessed or praise; and El, the name for God. Thus, Mahalalel means the Blessed God. Often Hebrew names include El, the name of God, as Dan-i-el, "God is my Judge", etc.

Jared

Mahalalel's son was named Jared, from the verb yaradh, meaning shall come down.7

Enoch

Jared's son was named Enoch, which means teaching, or commencement. He was the first of four generations of preachers. In fact, the earliest recorded prophecy was by Enoch, which amazingly enough deals with the Second Coming of Christ (although it is quoted in the Book of Jude in the New Testament):

Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against."
Jude 14, 15
Methuselah

Enoch was the father of Methuselah, who we have already mentioned. Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah.8 Apparently, Enoch received the prophecy of the Great Flood, and was told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld. The year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Enoch, of course, never died: he was translated 9 (or, if you'll excuse the expression, raptured ). That's how Methuselah can be the oldest man in the Bible, yet he died before his father!

Lamech

Methuselah's son was named Lamech, a root still evident today in our own English word, lament or lamentation. Lamech suggests despairing.

(This name is also linked to the Lamech in Cain's line who inadvertently killed his son Tubal-Cain in a hunting incident.10)

Noah

Lamech, of course, is the father of Noah, which is derived from nacham, to bring relief or comfort, as Lamech himself explains in Genesis 5:29.

The Composite List

Now let's put it all together:

Hebrew   English
Adam   Man
Seth   Appointed
Enosh   Mortal
Kenan   Sorrow;
Mahalalel   The Blessed God
Jared   Shall come down
Enoch   Teaching
Methuselah   His death shall bring
Lamech   The Despairing
Noah   Rest, or comfort.
That's rather remarkable:

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Here's the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis!

(You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!)

Evidence of Design

The implications of this discovery are more wide spread than is evident at first glance.

It demonstrates that in the earliest chapters of the Book of Genesis, God had already laid out His plan of redemption for the predicament of mankind. It is a love story, written in blood on a wooden cross which was erected in Judea almost 2,000 years ago.

The Bible is an integrated message system, the product of supernatural engineering. Every number, every place name, every detail every jot and tittle is there for our learning, our discovery, and our amazement. Truly, our God is an awesome God.

It is astonishing to discover how many Biblical controversies seem to evaporate if one simply recognized the unity the integrity of these 66 books, penned by 40 authors over thousands of years.

It is remarkable how many subtle discoveries lie behind the little details of the text. Some of these become immediately obvious with a little study; some are more technical and require special helps.


Look behind every detail: there's a discovery to be made! God always rewards the diligent student. What other messages lay hidden behind the names in the Bible? Check it out.
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studiojimi

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2008, 02:37:33 pm »

i love that metaphysical stuff man

that is great stuff

check out the MBD for a reference

i have one

a big fat book

MBD

Metaphysiacal BIBLE Dictionary

the Charles Fillmore Reference

Charles is the founder of NT

not New Testiment ....NEW THOUGHT

the whole truth.
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Larrchild

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2008, 03:09:35 pm »

To me, metaphysical represents things like reincarnation, a collective consciousness of energy among creatures that is akin to a god and all that karma stuff.

Is that what you mean by metaphysical?
And if so, what size mallet does it take to hammer that into the framework of the Bible so that they square-up?
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studiojimi

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2008, 03:24:07 pm »

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 26 April 2008 12:09

To me, metaphysical represents things like reincarnation, a collective consciousness of energy among creatures that is akin to a god and all that karma stuff.

Is that what you mean by metaphysical?
And if so, what size mallet does it take to hammer that into the framework of the Bible so that they square-up?



it all resonates quite well with my soul man

as far as metaphysical in definition

is means as i have studied and learned from many new thought Christianity classes (almost enough to be a minister but not quite)

looking beyone the physical appearance to the spiritual truth of the matter

i've defined and repeated this numerous times in these threads.

in other words...there is a flood experience for you

there is blinding light experience

a crusifixion experience

a ressurection experience

a healing experience

ad infinitum.
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Larrchild

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2008, 03:35:40 pm »

Ok, but if you walk into a metaphysical book store, that isn't what they will have on the shelves, so it's a similar use of a word that has been appropriated by a group of spiritualists for modern use (them, not you).
Gotcha.
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MagnetoSound

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Re: Fascinating explanation of the human need for god
« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2008, 05:13:59 pm »

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 26 April 2008 20:09

 a collective consciousness of energy among creatures that is akin to a god and all that karma stuff.


To me, that is precisely what 'God' is - a collective consciousness that has a positive interest, or something like 'the force for good and balance in the universe'.

Although I would extend 'creatures' to include the trees, the elements, the whole living planet.

In that sense, God is all around, all-seeing, all-knowing ....

Where I have a problem is with God as a 'He' - ie an external authority. I see God as more of an element of us. One that we need to embrace a little more, perhaps, but maybe in a somewhat more enlightened manner. I do not feel that the language of the bible even comes close to adequately conveying what God actually is, and I believe that is why it has lost credibility in the modern world.


Quote:

And if so, what size mallet does it take to hammer that into the framework of the Bible so that they square-up?


Indeed.

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