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Author Topic: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion  (Read 11904 times)

J-Texas

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2008, 11:47:38 am »

Let's not start this. I said that it only mattered to me personally and it's about my growth. I'm putting it out there to make sure that I'm not crazy. It's not a pissing match. I need this for me. I made the mix I wanted to make and it rocks.
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Jason Thompson
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imdrecordings

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2008, 11:51:26 am »

I'm not proposing that this become a pissing match, Jason. Sorry.  I'm just saying. Rolling Eyes

On the flip side, Jason.
What was your idea for the song?  Where did you hear this song coming from or going?  What did you hear the song trying to convey to the listener and how did that affect the way you mixed?

I'm curious to know how everyone approached the mix!  Smile
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-Scott S

j.hall

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2008, 12:42:42 pm »

imdrecordings wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 10:51



I'm curious to know how everyone approached the mix!  Smile


two and a half minutes of teeth kicking rock.

i wanted my mix to be thick, wide and loud.  i also wanted it to be fairly raw.  i wanted the listener to feel slightly uncomfortable with the message that's being yelled at them.

the verse drum and bass groove just pounds itself out, and i'm always trying to make my rhythm sections slam.

my overall goal, was to have a mix that didn't get in the way of people hearing a rock band, being a rock band, while making the rock band sound larger then life.......

lyrically the song is about a single person seeking redemption.  it's a metaphor based off Edgar Allen Poe's Tell Tale Heart
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iCombs

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2008, 12:46:43 pm »

I kept meaning to mention that somewhere...it took me about 3 or 4 listens...but that "will you put this body in floorboards just to hear m heart beating?"  hit me and I went..."AHHHHHHHH...creepy!"
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Ian Combs
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J-Texas

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2008, 01:01:42 pm »

It seemed really militant. I wanted the four on the floor to pound. To me, the message sounded like a plea, so I didn't want the vocal to be in-your-face... that's where the delay came in. It needed to beg to be heard. I wanted the breakdown parts to sound frustrated. The song was obviously reminiscent of Helmet's "Meantime". I went back to some of those tracks and tried to decide where that energy was coming from. That album was never over the top on production, but still kicks me in the nuts, so I used that as a reference.  
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Jason Thompson
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j.hall

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 01:02:03 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 10:34



As far as the darkness. Well, I was mixing this for mastering guys to hear. I thought that was the point. When I added about a 5db high shelf about 3500, it really sizzled without anything poking out too much. If you like the mix, check it out like that and see what you think.




first off, if i were trying to beat my mix, the very first thing i would do would be to get the top end opened up and feeling good.  

PLEASE don't read this as condescending or rude, but, i do about 40 - 60 projects a year.  i hear my work mastered ALL THE TIME.  so mixing something specifically for mastering in my case is a fairly solid educated guess of what i'll get on the back side.

i would never, NEVER recommend mixing "for mastering".  and to be clear, i actually don't ever mix for mastering.  this is my band, and i have complete control (minus what the other 3 guys want done).  i mixed this record dark on purpose and for a specific goal.

it's too dark, no question.  the mastered finished album is exactly what we wanted as a band, so it worked out.

also, i've never compared the output of my limiter to the source.  to my ears, it's really transparent, but maybe it's boosting some highs.....i don't know, sorry about the "bait and switch" wasn't my intention at all.
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imdrecordings

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 01:06:42 pm »

J.

How did you use/mix the Room Mics for the drums?
I couldn't find a use for them.
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-Scott S

J-Texas

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 01:15:53 pm »

I don't know man. I liked it dark. To me, it wouldn't have sounded good with good ol' midrange guitars and such. Like I said, I went back and listened with a high and low shelf and it was just what I was after. I left some headroom and just kept the overall balance right... for me. A second opinion on where the highs and lows should be across the board and BOOM. It's what I would want.



As far as the room mics. I really found no use in the room1 mic. The room2 mic was absolutely crucial to getting the drum sound that I wanted.
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Jason Thompson
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bblackwood

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 01:33:56 pm »

Hey J, if this isn't the right place for this, feel free to move it...

Here are the notes I jotted down regarding each mix:
j.hall - nice bottom, gtrs seem smeary, overall dark
rkoehler - choruses smaller than verses and too dark, cymbals really eating up space
firefly - stereo spreader or verb? big smeary mess here
antman - vox too spitty/sibilant, guitars too scooped/neutered. where's the bottom?
billbehadaz - vox buried in chorus, vocal delay sounds cheap, too much dynamic shift from first chorus to last, will make the front of the song sound weak comapred to others around it. last chorus sounds good.
cymatics - strange buss compression, upper mids/top harsh, lower mids neutered
scott selfridge - bottom end nice, top a little edgy
grant richards - dark, nice pumping overall, sorta welrdly pushed in the mids
gregthompson - harsh upper mids, makes it seem overly-thin
jtexas - extremely dark and bottom heavy - tweeters 6dB to bright?
podgorny - nice presence, not over-done,but seems phasey
uncleozzy - snare way too big, overall dark tones
adammiller - nice balance.i like this one
ator - holy midrange batman!
boedconstrictor -  vox too sibilant in verses, vocals distracting, overall balance prettty good
maxim - vox way too loud, mix very dark, little presence in choruses
icombs - very wierd spectrum - monitoring must be screwed in this room. no midrange!
robdarling - vox too loud, nice balance overall, maybe a touch splashy

Since this portion of IMP17 was to "beat J.Hall's mix", I'm considering his mix the benchmark. That being said, I only found one track that I would choose over J.hall's mix if I were mastering it and that was Adam Miller's. I think this mix is really well balanced and also has the smooth upper midrange and top end I look for in a good mix.

For comparison, here's j.hall's mastered mix (the way he wanted when he came down for mastering): *click*.
Here's Adam Miller's version mastered (though Adam's was mastered off the MP3: *click*.

Cheers, hope this helps!
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Brad Blackwood
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imdrecordings

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 04:30:47 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 11:42

imdrecordings wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 10:51



I'm curious to know how everyone approached the mix!  Smile


two and a half minutes of teeth kicking rock.

i wanted my mix to be thick, wide and loud.  i also wanted it to be fairly raw.  i wanted the listener to feel slightly uncomfortable with the message that's being yelled at them.


the verse drum and bass groove just pounds itself out, and i'm always trying to make my rhythm sections slam.

my overall goal, was to have a mix that didn't get in the way of people hearing a rock band, being a rock band, while making the rock band sound larger then life.......

lyrically the song is about a single person seeking redemption.  it's a metaphor based off Edgar Allen Poe's Tell Tale Heart

That's pretty much what I heard and was going for, too.  It's funny how people's tastes differ.   It's so cool how the same idea from 2 different people yields two seperate results. I love mixing...

J.- 414's on the Rooms?

I don't mix any where near the amount of material you do.
That said...
When you mixed your own album, were there any albums/bands you kept in the back of your mind?   Or do you approach a mix with the intent of exposing a feeling inside or vision and work at it until it finally becomes/is that?  Does that make sense? Confused

Quote:

scott selfridge - bottom end nice, top a little edgy

Brad,
Thank you! Surprised
This place is great.
I love the feadback!
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-Scott S

iCombs

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2008, 07:30:08 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 12:33

Hey J, if this isn't the right place for this, feel free to move it...

Here are the notes I jotted down regarding each mix:

icombs - very wierd spectrum - monitoring must be screwed in this room. no midrange!


That was a bit of an intentional choice...I really wanted the size top to bottom to feel a bit exaggerated.  I think I just lost my frame of reference towards the end of it and scooped a little more than I should have.  I know my room isn't stellar...but it's not THAT bad.  Very Happy
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Ian Combs
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Antman

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2008, 08:06:36 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 01:33

Hey J, if this isn't the right place for this, feel free to move it...

antman - vox too spitty/sibilant, guitars too scooped/neutered. where's the bottom?


Woah, not enough bottom was the last thing I was expecting to hear. I think I mustn't be spending enough time with my studio monitors and probably too much time listening to my laptop's speakers.

Thanks.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2008, 11:32:20 pm »

imdrecordings wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 15:30


J.- 414's on the Rooms?



nope, this record was made totally ghetto.

tracked in a basement to a PT M-powered rig with a random slew of cheap mics.

Quote:

 
When you mixed your own album, were there any albums/bands you kept in the back of your mind?



nope, i never do

Quote:


  Or do you approach a mix with the intent of exposing a feeling inside or vision and work at it until it finally becomes/is that?  Does that make sense? Confused



that's a tough question to answer.  i think the idealistic side of myself would like to think feelings can be conveyed with the proper mix.  i do know, believe and understand that the emotional content is up the band.  

i do generally have a clear vision of where i want to take a mix, and i'm typically working toward that very early on.  sometimes it changes as the mix develops, but that is kinda rare.

you have to keep in mind that forcing your will onto a song is a really bad approach, IMO.

i think that's something that takes a lot of experience and good instincts to finely tune.  and i'm not saying i have either.  i'm still learning and have much to learn.....

i do however enjoy the digital domain.  i'll fearlessly edit and mix songs knowing if the band hates it, i just change it to what they want.......no harm no foul


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j.hall

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2008, 11:35:38 pm »

room mics?  i never answered that question in this IMP.  i've fielded it before when my drum tracks have been used in other IMPs

basically, those mics are tight to the kit.  i compress the crap out of them and blend them back in the tight mics.  it makes the kit sound HUGE if done right..........IF DONE RIGHT.
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Billybehdaz

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Re: IMP17 Beat J.Hall Discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2008, 07:58:49 am »

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 12:33



billbehadaz - vox buried in chorus, vocal delay sounds cheap, too much dynamic shift from first chorus to last, will make the front of the song sound weak comapred to others around it. last chorus sounds good.





Hi Brad, thanks for the comments.  This brings some more questions.  What part of the song are you considering the "chorus"?  I'm assuming the part with the downstroke power chords and 8th notes on the crash, please correct me if I'm wrong so I can interpret you comments better.  Also, which vox delay do you feel sounds cheap?  The slapback on the lead or the 1/8 note that comes in on the 'chorus'.  

I used a lot of automation in the song so it would build from beginning to end with the intention that the outro would really slam.  It sounds like this is a problem for mastering?  I did some of this with master fader rides because I was compressing the buss from the beginning.  I think there was only about a 1.5db shift from front to back, too much?

Thanks!
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