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Author Topic: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?  (Read 71688 times)

J.J. Blair

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2008, 11:27:31 PM »

Alan Meyerson wrote on Sat, 05 April 2008 16:18

Do you say "based on seeing the inside of their 47s" as a bad thing or a good thing?


I wasn't implying either.  What I meant was that since they are very different on the inside, while using the same bodies, it's a pretty safe conclusion that they are not being assembled by FLEA.  BTW, I liked what I saw inside the Wunder 47s.  So as not to irritate Klaus with digression, feel free to PM me for my impressions, if you want.
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2008, 07:07:14 AM »

"At AES, Mike Castoro told me himself that they (Wunder) are using aluminum diaphragms on their M50 clones. I don't know who is making them for him."

Neumann had to discontinue the M50 because the aluminium they used, which they aquired from outside, was no longer made to their specifications. After that we all know they put in the KK83 capsule. Modern M50's (TLM50) used first nickel and because of technical failures they swiched over to titanium.

It would really "wunder" me if the Wunder guys use aluminium. But "Wunders" happen.

Erik Sikkema
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J.J. Blair

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2008, 01:07:31 PM »

Here's the story I was told from somebody involved with Neumann about what happened with the nickel, and why they stopped using it.   As was explained to me, the nickel acted like a spore, and continued to grow to the point where it shorted the backplate.  

If anybody knows something to the contrary, please feel free to correct that story.  I don't know enough about metallurgy to really understand how that works.  I'll e-mail Mike Castoro to confirm the use of aluminum in his M50 clones.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

johnR

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2008, 01:35:47 PM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 06 April 2008 18:07

Here's the story I was told from somebody involved with Neumann about what happened with the aluminum, and why they stopped using it. As was explained to me, the aluminum acted like a spore, and continued to grow to the point where it shorted the backplate.


That would be due to whisker growth, encouraged by the electrical field in the capsule.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2008, 02:20:32 PM »

A friend of mine had two TLM50s.  The capsules were nickel.  They failed on him.  I don't recall what happened after that.  Maybe he received titanium capsules.  He has since died so asking him is problematic.

I don't remember there ever being an aluminum capsule for them.  Not one even talked about.
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delcosmos

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2008, 04:07:52 PM »

What about Neumann KM253- are they a good alternative to the M50?

Best regards.

delcosmos.
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2008, 06:41:27 PM »

What about Neumann KM253- are they a good alternative to the M50?

Only if you would add a sphere.

Erik Sikkema
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Plush

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 11:35:17 AM »

Very interesting discussion here.

In seeking alternatives, we need to know what the problem is with the current set-up.
I suspect it must have something to do with sound.  Alan, what do you notice that you do not like?

I am an M50 freak here using all different kind of variants. ALU capsule, mylar capsule, original tube version, Decca transistorized version etc.

FLEA makes a very good M50 copy---sorry to say that it is indeed also offering authentic "cosmetics."  Their version is with a gold mylar capsule.

I would need confirmation direct from the source to buy the news that Wunder is using an ALU capsule since they are getting their mics from FLEA (with Thiersch's capsule membranes)

What would you like to change about the sound of your current set-up?

Alan---I really enjoyed your score recording of "Vantage Point."  Very nice work!

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Hudson Fair
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 11:56:35 AM »

In addition to the Flea M54-0, here is the Flea alternative: the 4750 - a replacement head for a U-47.

http://www.flea-microphones.com/

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Plush

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 12:02:28 PM »

Yes, that is one version they do, but that one is for a U47.

I recently bought a FLEA M49 copy and, in my opinion, it IS like a M49 in all but country of origin.
You can see pictures of how I use it on the FLEA website under "Reviews."

FLEA also makes a mic that looks like an M50.
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Hudson Fair
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Fig

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2008, 05:14:04 PM »

While I have never actually used an M50, I DO use UMT-70 from Gefell on my Decca Tree.

$0.02,

Fig
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Ron Sweet

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2008, 08:57:47 PM »

In this article on the history of the Decca Tree, there's mention of KM56's used by Wallace and Haddy in a later revision of their "tree" at Decca Studios in London. Not that finding KM56's will be easy...

 http://mixonline.com/recording/applications/audio_decca_tree /
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Ron Sweet

wildplum

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2008, 02:24:13 PM »

Erik, the APEs come in several "flavors" (L30B, L40B L50B). Which did you use to get the 4006 to sound like the TLM50?
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Paul Tumolo

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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2008, 02:53:56 PM »

Erik, the APEs come in several "flavors" (L30B, L40B L50B). Which did you use to get the 4006 to sound like the TLM50?

L50B (50mm) APE gives the closest approach to (TL)M50 sound.

Erik Sikkema
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

Steve Hudson

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Re: augmenting my M150's
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2008, 06:38:40 PM »

FWIW, I was just at Mike Castoro's shop this afternoon and he had five of his Wunder CM50s on the table burning in the power supplies. He showed me the omni capsules, which do have aluminum diaphragms. Two of the mics were destined for one of the biggest producers in LA (I will not divulge Mike's customers without his permission). Sadly I did not have time to give one a listen.
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