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Author Topic: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?  (Read 63909 times)

J.J. Blair

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2008, 05:44:08 PM »

Ugh.  I'll go open up some mics, I suppose, since I have a nice digi camera here for the day.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

simolino

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2008, 06:58:03 AM »

frankj wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 12:29

I am waiting for an MDS 1 that I bought through Ebay. From the looks of the specifications it is hypercardioid, not cardioid as the 409 is. The specs are different on the low end (50 vs 70 hz on the bottom).

So it really wouldn't sound identical, would it?


I would not pay that much attention to those old spec`s...I know.. in sheets from different periods Sennh. shows other values for these mics!
one thing is sure and thats that the mds1 has the same 409 capsule , the slightly hyper card. pattern that it develops at some freq. might be due to its narrower rounded rear gauze but I m not sure about this, in any way believe me your ear will not be able to tell the difference .

So if the heads are PROPERLY working then you will have 2 409`s in one indeed.

This "proper working" thing is a big issue on ebay , I would only buy from a seller that can answer questions satisfactory cauz looking at his feedback only dont say much, people may leave positive just because they dont know better , but this is a diff. topic.

Here a pic of an open mds1 head



index.php/fa/8476/0/
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2008, 10:54:28 AM »

OK, here's some pics.  The MD409 N had a bad capsule.  This is the 409 capsule inside the aluminum housing, with some insulation around it.  Before I did this, it looked identical to the MDS-1 capsule next to it.  You can see the slight changes in the MD409-U3, but I can't really hear them.  


index.php/fa/8482/0/
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

J.J. Blair

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2008, 10:55:44 AM »

The front side.  I should have measured the diaphragms when they were open to make sure it's not just an optical illusion that the 408 looks a tad smaller.


index.php/fa/8483/0/
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2008, 07:31:49 PM »

J.J.,to me the capsules look the same, except the the hole in the reflector of the middle one clearly looks smaller than the others??
But on the pic, that Simono posted of the same type of capsule , the hole is bigger. Anyway this hole according to my experience is only important for the lower bass, so it would not explain the bass-rolloff.
Regards,
       Esa
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spacee

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2008, 01:01:38 AM »

Hi All -

Time for my $0.02...

The MDS1 and 409N capsules are IDENTICAL - I just disassembled 3 409Ns and a fresh, never opened, MDS1.

The holes on the reflectors are exactly the same size (on the mics I have).

My questions are about foam on the 409N.

It appears that two different styles of suspension/support and foam were used in the 409Ns I disassembled.  Both capsules have some old foam residue on the top front (the reflector), and I cannot tell what is original, but my experience is that most 409Ns and some 409U3s I've seen have had pretty serious foam rot.

Example One: (one 409N)
The capsule is isolated and held via rubber pads on three plastic semicircles that are screwed to small ears on the gold grille.  There is a small hollow circle of foam glued on the reflector around the little hole on the capsules front, and a larger hollow circle of foam glued on the aluminum capsule housing on the back.  There is also a silk-like screen on the inside of the gold grille.  The front pictures posted by J.J. Blair are just like this 409N, except his 409N appears to also have a cork-like ring on the outside top front of the capsule.  The back pictures posted by J.J. Blair do not show the foam ring on the capsule back mine has...

Example Two (two 409Ns):
The capsule is isolated via a foam pad about the depth of the capsule with a cutout for the capsule.  The  three gold ears are still on the gold grill, but are flat to the grille - apparently not used anymore, and never used. There are also thinner (about 1/4") foam pads inside the black and gold grilles - a foam support system like all my 409U3s, and 609s.

My questions are: Am I missing any foam pieces in example one?  It has less bass, but sounds "rounder", maybe even better, even when I switch the capsules, or use MDS1 capsules - so apparently the way the support and foam is configured is affecting the sound of the mic.

And...

Does anyone else have 409Ns using the suspension/support I described in example two?  Just foam pads - like a 409U3 or a 609...

And...

I have the terminal on the right as my Tuchel pin 1 (positive) - how's your phasing??  (-:

I was able to obtain 609/906 foam rebuild kits from Sennheiser - I have yet a few more 409Ns that need foam, and apparently never used example one's suspension/support system, so I would like to rebuild them as example two 409Ns.

I'll post some photos if anyone is interested.

Thanks -
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Acca

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2010, 08:42:13 AM »

Hi guys,

is there anyone here who can explain me exactly HOW TO OPEN UP an MD 409 U3?
I don't want to spoil it, but I need to open it up as it is not working anymore.

Any help is appreciated!!!

PS. Is the service manual anywhere available on the web?
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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2010, 11:44:20 AM »

index.php/fa/14968/0/

Take off the plastic inlays to reveal the two screws shown in the pic and remove them. That enables you to take the thing apart.
Regards,
       Esa
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Acca

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2010, 01:19:18 PM »

Hi Esa,

just one more question: how do I remove the plastic inlays? In other words, do I have to spoil them or there's a "safe" way to remove them?

Thanks!!!
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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2010, 05:53:14 PM »

It is difficult not to spoil them, but you can replace them with pitch or just cut them out of black plastic pins the right size or just leave them out. It is possible to prise them out with a very small screwdriver, but you would always leave some traces.
Regards,
       Esa
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Acca

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2010, 05:06:20 PM »

Hi Esa,

many thanks for your help.
I just managed to open it up and I discovered that the red cable is disconnected from the capsule, so it's highly probable that the capsule is ok.
Do you think Sennheiser has a foam replacement kit still available?

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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2010, 10:26:45 AM »

In fact, I never asked if they have. They might as well have, because some similar looking models are still in production. I have replaced with similar material and it works. Well I have the original foam in good condition to compare. If you don`t have and the foam is unrecognizable, you may have to try out a bit, but it does not seem to be so choosy about it.
Esa
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danbir

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2010, 08:48:19 AM »

hello!
I have a sennheiser md 409 to, and the foam inside has erroded, and the capsule is kinda loose inside. The previous owner put cotton inside, and it seems that its not totally ideal solution.
In addition to get it refoamed, id also like to get the mic tested/capsule cleaned, to see if it working up to top specs.
Any suggestions what i should do?

Thanks danbir
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