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Author Topic: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?  (Read 70244 times)

panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2008, 05:21:47 PM »

Nick, thanks for the infos and pics! Finally we have it black on white, that MD408 is a supercardioid.

simolino wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 16:26


if your mic bares the capsule that is shown below then it is a 409 one , note that these MD409 capsules are markt with a 402 number.Several ebay sellers claim that their microphones (i.e md408 , md403 and sometimes some other ones) have the same capsule as the 409 but this can not be true unless their capsules are replaced of course.


Sorry to disagree. I still believe they are the same. Your pics are not showing the actual capsule, but it is still in that alu-casing mentioned many times during this thread. Since I still have a few of these"Grundig"-capsules, I would like to be 100% sure if they are the same. So those of you, who have taken it out of that casing, please provide pics or look at mine and perhaps we have something. By the way it finally occured to me to test my capsules and yes: they are supercardioids. My time to  Embarassed. Note, that my capsules have quite an open access to the rear vents. Just add more filtering and you easily get a cardioid.
Regards,
       Esa
index.php/fa/8458/0/


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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2008, 05:27:33 PM »

The rear wiew:
index.php/fa/8459/0/
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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2008, 05:49:57 PM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 19:23

Anyway, hypercard tends to cause bass rolloff in my experience.  Perhaps the frequency differences are due to this.  



It surely is a big part of it. Probably depends a lot of the mic in qestion. With the various mics that I have, it seems to affect the low end, but mainly making the low end responcy not go so low .  But not in a way as was described here with this particular MD408. Even more confusing is, that my capsules have absolutely no bass rolloff and do have a strong proximity-effect. All in all they are very similar to MD421 in sound.
Regards,
       Esa
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simolino

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2008, 05:55:10 PM »

Panman
we are talking about the GDSM200 vs MD409 , the capsule you are showing is from the Grundig GDSM202 and has nothing to do with the 409
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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2008, 06:06:40 PM »

simolino wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 23:55

we are talking about the GDSM200 vs MD409 , the capsule you are showing is from the Grundig GDSM202 and has nothing to do with the 409


Sorry, but claims without any proof are not the custom of this forum. So if you kindly provide some proof, like did you ever open the alu-casing of the MD409 capsule? If you did, then it is your own experience and serves as a proof to me. Or if you have a pic showing, that it is different, would be even better.
Regards,
      Esa
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simolino

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2008, 06:49:13 PM »

...claims and proof.., O.K let`s play ball,
My knowledge is from first hand, i also posted a pic of the 409 capsule, and now I m telling you that the one you are showing is from the smaller GDSM202 shown below and if You think I am wrong please prove it.
index.php/fa/8461/0/
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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2008, 07:18:28 PM »

Nick, please try to understand me correctly and answer my question!
All I want to know is, if the capsule in my pics is the same as in MD409 and if you can verify it with a pic of the MD409 capsule without that alu-casing. Or can you otherwise verify what you are saying? My doubts are clearly justified, because it looks so much the same.
But you are right, it is from GDSM202, but the point was solely and clearly about, if it is the same as the ones discussed. So please again, say what you know,but with enough backing and we are getting somewhere.
Regards,
      Esa
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2008, 08:16:43 PM »

Simolino, if you remove what you think is the smaller capsule from its plastic housing and then remove the 409 capsule from it's aluminum housing, you will find the exact same dynamic coil element.

I said this already: I have dissected the the 409 capsule out of the aluminum casing, and it was identical to the 408 capsule which I then placed inside that aluminum casing, and then placed inside my MD409-N.  That mic now sounds identical to my MD409-U3s.  

Draw your own conclusions form that.  My conclusion is that the capsule of the 408 is identical to the 409, save for the aluminum casing.  

BTW, if the 200 is the same as the MDS-1, the MDS-1 has the aluminum casing.  
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simolino

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2008, 09:12:17 PM »

the capsule of the smaller 202 is much smaller and has visible different diaphragm with yellow ring instead of red of the 409`s

The one of the 408 is much smaller too with diameter of 34mm against 39mm of the 409 and is 21mm deep against 36mm of the 409
that`s with the 409 element disassembled as shown below.index.php/fa/8462/0/
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simolino

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2008, 09:13:37 PM »

index.php/fa/8463/0/
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rodabod

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2008, 06:28:02 AM »

Even if the capsules were the same dimensions, I would pay attention to the venting at the rear of the capsule to see if this is the same.

Roddy
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2008, 11:21:08 AM »

I'm not sure what the 202 proves.  Last I checked, we were talking about the 408 being the same as the 409.  
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

frankj

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2008, 01:29:41 PM »

I am waiting for an MDS 1 that I bought through Ebay. From the looks of the specifications it is hypercardioid, not cardioid as the 409 is. The specs are different on the low end (50 vs 70 hz on the bottom).

So it really wouldn't sound identical, would it?
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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2008, 05:00:13 PM »

Nick, thanks for the pics! They clearly show, that GDSM202 has a different capsule. But they surely come from the same tree. Judging from the pics I can see e.g., that the magnet-element is larger in 409 and the rear-vents design too.

simolino wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 03:12

the capsule of the smaller 202 is much smaller and has visible different diaphragm with yellow ring instead of red of the 409`s


The diaphragm might be the same though, because some 202:s, that I have opened have had red rings too.MD421,MD21 also have red rings. I also have compared these diaphragms with those of 421`s and found them to be otherwise identical except the domes of 421:s are of double foil, but 202:s only have a single foil, so it is thinner.If this is important,I cannot say.
 
Quote:

The one of the 408 is much smaller too with diameter of 34mm against 39mm of the 409 and is 21mm deep against 36mm of the 409 that`s with the 409 element


In that case, the 202 capsule measures the same as 408. So is it the same or not?

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 02:16

I have dissected the the 409 capsule out of the aluminum casing, and it was identical to the 408 capsule which I then placed inside that aluminum casing, and then placed inside my MD409-N.  That mic now sounds identical to my MD409-U3s.


What do we make out of this? We have a serious contradiction of two persons both giving first-hand information. How about somebody finally posting a pic of the MD408 capsule!?
Regards,
       Esa


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panman

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Re: Sennheiser MD 409, Grundig GDSM 200 differences?
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2008, 05:22:27 PM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 17:21

I'm not sure what the 202 proves.


J.J., I did not mean to cause any confusion with my pics of 202, but obviously that is what happened. The point was, that if it was similar to any of those discussed here and somebody pointed  it out, it would have proved something since nobody posted pics of the dissected 409 capsule or 408 capsule by then.
Regards,
       Esa
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