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[J-Texas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVa3cOE5-1M



JUST TO KEEP CHRISTOPHER... AND THIS GREAT THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSION ALIVE!













PS. Jimi... thx.

[studiojimi]

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 08:09

PS. Jimi... I BEG you (this is not a joke) to get rid of that tasteless Adam and Steve picture. That has brought this thread down in the trash and it's such a good message. What do you think?

let it go man

i was just playing advocate to those of a different exposure to the ergonomic outreaching of spirit of God in man.

if we get exclusive instead of inclusive

we've lost Spirit in my opinion

i may not condone homo activity for myself... but i'd hardly want to influence others from having their path they choose


as a studio drummer and writer of songs for the Village People

i owe the gays a lot...they've opened a lot of doors for prosperity for me of which i am thankful to God for.


the only question is are the gay boys included on the God's kids list....?? and my still small voice within says YES.

[Jessica A. Engle]

studiojimi wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 11:21

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 08:09 PS. Jimi... I BEG you (this is not a joke) to get rid of that tasteless Adam and Steve picture. That has brought this thread down in the trash and it's such a good message. What do you think? let it go man i was just playing advocate to those of a different exposure to the ergonomic outreaching of spirit of God in man. if we get exclusive instead of inclusive we've lost Spirit in my opinion

But Jimi,

were any of us even talking about this?

I think it came as a non-sequitur for the rest of us!  Perhaps this is why some might find it out of place.  

I don't care whether you leave it up or take it down, tho' I can understand why the request was made (remember the lightswitch?)

I think (not to my credit, but to the credit of you all) that the open discussion we have had here has been so enjoyable and pleasant.  You all should be so proud that not a single argument has broken out here.  You've risen to the occasion, so to speak!  But I'd rather have this thread drop like a stone right now, having gone the lovely way it has gone, rather than prolong it with petty arguments over semantics in order to "keep it from dying".

We can talk about it if you want to, Jimi. Truly.  I'm sure we all could contribute something interesting and beneficial to such a conversation, just as we have been.  But feel free to ask a question instead of playing "advocate" to a non-existent argument.  

It's been working so far......

Or should I say, "The spirit has been with us so far"?
Or "the Force has been strong with us so far"?
Or "we've been showing an incredible amount of love and understanding for one another so far"?
etc
etc

Jessica

[J-Texas]

USE THE SCHWARTZ!

[John Ivan]

I wonder.. How can we talk about Christianity without pointing out that many, many Christians have what can only be called a BRUTAL attitude toward homosexual's?

I'm not pointing my finger at any one person here. But the history is not pretty at all.

Again I'll say. I know many Christians and some of them are among my favorite people but I simply can not get with many of the positions taken by this Collective Faith.

I hope no one takes this as a personal insult. It's not intended that way at all but is rather, an observation from my perspective..

Ivan........................

[Nick Sevilla]

J-Texas wrote on Tue, 25 March 2008 13:12

Man, I think you share the same view as a lot of people. The reason you haven't felt His presence... you haven't invited Him into your life. Once you let God into your life and seek Him in all things, He WILL speak to you. He won't impose on you. He needs to be invited. It's free will and it's up to you. By the way. My God thinks that you are just as important as ANYONE else.

I know, I know, we're discussing religion. Now for the fun part.

There's one other (literary)character who states this. Can you guess which one?

+1 to whomever guesses.

[mgod]

John Ivan wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 11:06

I wonder.. How can we talk about Christianity without pointing out that many, many Christians have what can only be called a BRUTAL attitude toward homosexuals? Ivan........................

Right, can anyone point us to a passage where Jesus condemns homosexuals? For that matter where does he condemn anything except condemnation?

DS

[J-Texas]

mgod wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 13:56

John Ivan wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 11:06 I wonder.. How can we talk about Christianity without pointing out that many, many Christians have what can only be called a BRUTAL attitude toward homosexuals? Ivan........................ Right, can anyone point us to a passage where Jesus condemns homosexuals? For that matter where does he condemn anything except condemnation? DS

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Thess. 4:2,  "For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor..."

1 John 2:4, "The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."





NOW... as far as brutal attitude... that's judgment. Judgment can only come from the Father. Condemnation is human. We are all sinners.

The Bible says:

(Col. 4:5-6), "Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. 6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned, as it were, with salt, so that you may know how you should respond to each person,"

(1 Tim. 1:5), "But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith,"


Don't package all Christians in the same box.

[Barry Hufker]

The Old Testament and its laws apply to the Jews, although the 10 Commandments are a good guide for all.  As I've said in another thread, God was trying to show that no matter how harsh the penalty people would still sin.

Grace comes after the resurrection of Jesus Christ where all sins are forgiven for those who will accept it.  While Cor. 6, 9-10 speaks of who will not enter the kingdom of God, there are many others such as all of us who have not asked for forgiveness of our sins.  Any sin.  Even one sin.

I believe the Christian Church attacks homosexuals because they are an identifiable part of the population they can easily point to.  In the U.S. it used to be blacks during segregation.  We can see clearly they aren't white Christians so surely they can't worship with us.  It is much harder to point to adulterers, fornicators, swindlers, liars, etc. because they aren't readily identifiable. Maybe you can find one or two but a group of them is very hard to find.

Additionally, I believe some Christians, especially men, are so strongly against homosexuality because they fear it in themselves.  Take recent Republican politicians and ministers as an example.  Quite often people fight hardest against what they fear in themselves (he wrote again for effect).

I believe in this statement from the Bible (paraphrasing), "each person should work out his own salvation with fear and trembling".  What that means is it's between you and God as to how your life turns out.

EDIT: Christ sums up the "new" teaching in this way (paraphrasing) "love God with all your heart, mind and soul.  And love your neighbor as yourself."

[PookyNMR]

A strong and important distinction needs to be made between the condemnation of people and of behaviors.

There is a difference.  The people themselves are not the "problem" or the "enemy."  The belief system and behaviors are the things under fire.

That said, Jesus said that in the end a person is judged by his deeds.  So all people will be held accountable for the choices that they make.

[Barry Hufker]

But Christians will not be under judgment because their misdeeds and sins are covered by the blood of Christ.

For me that's a wonderful comfort.  Although I deserve a punishment for what I've done and have failed to do, there won't be a penalty for me because I have (through no wisdom or strength of my own)accepted the gift offered to all people - forgiveness.

[PookyNMR]

Their judgment has already been given and paid for by Jesus, yes.

However, believers can walk away from grace should they choose to walk another path (Heb 6:1-12)

[J-Texas]

I don't believe you can lose your salvation for any reason. That said, asking for forgiveness without repentance is like not asking at all.

You both are making really good points and it seems that we are all in agreement on one thing: All is forgiven in Christ.

I agree, Barry. Each person will be judged by God, it's not anyone's business to condemn anyone else.


I do not agree with you, Barry, on the OT being just for the Jews.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:



If you believe and understand the trinity, you can't believe that Jesus came down and contradicted himself. I don't think he was like, "Hey Dad, you can tell them to write that, but I'm just gonna change it later." That doesn't make sense.

[studiojimi]

ok here's the deal:


OT

old test

i call it

the degeneration of man

man's mind was young and growing and he didn't have the sense to not eat shell fish and meat that was not kept right and a whole bunch o' other "poopy"

he had urges and senses but no experience.  he kinda new right from wrong and God was showing up and talking to people cuz he was less distracted by the creations of man have come in to existence at this point in linear human time.

Divine man needed Divind Creator GOD to show up and guide him so God was more visible.

if not in reality...metaphysically to be sure.

regardless....
God always shows up at right time in the right way.

God already knew or discovered or designed along the way of his creation that we were sinners who needed a savior and in His time (which is a lot) He had and always has a plan much larger than we can conceive... our brains can't even fathom it as we will not have linear year time to even ponder it or experience the perfect outworking of it.  Did God make a mistake making a sinful man?  Couldn't God rewrite his work? I believe He could and He might be doing it right now in His own time.  We are one or the other

already perfect and since God made us we should be perfect

or he fine tuned his creation just like we do the songs we write.

it's all a process

The cousin of Jesus, John the B (his street name)

B's biggest line is ...."the kingdom of heaven is at hand"

what he meant by this (to me) was...God's perfect thought expression of Himself is about to appear.

Which brings us well into the N.T. now

which i call

the re-generation of man

the Son showing up as predicted in Isaiah many mamy years before

as predicted by many, along comes brother J.C. (the wayshower and also known by many other names including the Great Emancipator) and one of His biggest lines is

"the kingdom of heaven is within"


Bam...he's number one with a bullet

and He came so that you could have life and more of it in abundance

He came so do demonstrate God's correcting power that you also have indwelling and available within.

now

what this means (to me)  
and i now paraphrase Jesus as saying:

God has sent me to remind and command ("i have a new command for you") to you to "love one another"

and remind you now i'm paraphrasing and interpreting here.....

as we all should do this and have our own unique and ergonomic experience and we should share this news.

God made all of you perfect, whole, and complete.

Stop looking at yourselves as in disease, lack, limitations for you are equal to God because you are of God. It's Biblical to me and I don't care if it's not to you.  

So.....if you don't keep his Laws and break these Laws.....His Laws will break you (with love).

I repeat
I really don't care whether you agree with me or not

but YOU....Divine You..... is a spirit living in a spirtual world/universe, governed by spiritual Laws.

these Laws are God's way of keeping everything in His creation in alignment/check...reigned.

and don't ask me about why Hitler or 911.

God is in charge and all is in Divine Order.


it matters not to me whether you agree with me but i can promise you this.... you fall under these Laws and you should study them learn and become aware of them and praise Him daily for He is good.

You will always break Laws.

That's part of your human journey on your spiritual path of Growing closer to God whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

You came into this world pure and you will go our purer than you were in your journey.

all i know is

i'm working with this information daily in all of my affairs

even if you think you see otherwise

it doesn't matter to me how you perceive this

that's none of my spiritual business

if it doesn't seem like it's for you

perhaps it's not for you.... and that's quite alright by me.

i'm rarely sick

i'm prosperour

i'm happy

i'm loving

i'm lovable

this list of positives affirmations go on and on and is added on to daily

i count it ALL joy.

and it shows in my drumming and my singing and my other creativity

i'm too blessed to be stressed.

but now it's not all about me

this is available to you too

if you believe

you can receive it.

amen?

[PookyNMR]

J-Texas wrote on Wed, 26 March 2008 14:34

I don't believe you can lose your salvation for any reason.

That's an old discussion.  But, Hebrews 6 and all of 1 John come to mind.  If you chose to walk another direction, you'll get what you've asked for.