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Author Topic: 4047 sounding weird in a kick  (Read 4334 times)

Halfway Competent

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4047 sounding weird in a kick
« on: March 19, 2008, 12:47:16 pm »

Hi folks,

I engaged the pad on my Audio Technica 4047 and stuck it inside a kick drum (specs say it can take 150 dB).  Sounded fantastic for about a minute or two, after which there was a slight thump and the output dimmed considerably (maybe 10-20 dB); also, all the bass fell off, but I (it) was still hearing mids/highs just fine.  

Was this an idiotic move that damaged the mic?  Or should this have worked, and there's a defect in the unit?  

Thanks guys!
(Only) Halfway Competent Wink

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PookyNMR

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 07:21:12 pm »

You did have the mic a little off axis, didn't you?

Sounds to me like you fried the mic.


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Nathan Rousu

Halfway Competent

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 07:31:35 pm »

Yeah, it was off-center, and pointed kinda toward the corner of the shell and head.

Odd thing is, though, they spec 159 dB max (pad-engaged), and the condenser element on their AE2500 kick drum mic has max input spec of 148 dB.

An electrovoice Raven pinch-hit for the rest of the night on kick (max input spec of 160 dB) and had no trouble.

Well, crap.  I haven't had a chance to check it since I retired it at the session, so I don't know if it works or not.  Hopefully I didn't blow it up.   Crying or Very Sad
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J.J. Blair

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 07:48:17 pm »

It's not a ribbon.  Excessive SPL or air movement usually wouldn't damage the mic.  Are they 3
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Halfway Competent

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 08:00:05 pm »

Yeah, I don't really care if it sounds like a FET47 or not; I just care that it sounds good (which I think it does).  =)

Sound On Sound says:
"...where most large-diaphragm mics use mylar film approaching 10 microns in thickness, with a few as thin as three microns, Audio Technica have developed vapour-deposited gold film which is only two microns thick, specifically for the dual diaphragms of the AT4047SV capsule. The purpose of reducing the diaphragm's thickness is to reduce the mass of the moving parts and hence improve the HF response. A five-stage artificial ageing test is used to try to keep the long-term characteristics of the mic stable."

So, sounds like the diaphragm is really thin.  If the diaphragm(s) are OK, though, what would cause such effects as a sudden quieting of the sound, and rolloff of the bass?
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Halfway Competent

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 11:21:52 pm »

Just plugged the mic in to test it.  It sounds as it should.  Looks like it's not blown up.  But I won't be using it inside a kick anymore.
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Larrchild

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 11:29:26 pm »

Maybe an air blast stuck the diaphragm to the backplate during the outage and it became unstuck after the polarizing charge bled off.
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Larry Janus
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Matt_Weston

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2008, 09:39:53 am »

I've actually had the exact same thing happen with my D112. I never figured out what happened, but it has sounded fine since... Except now I don't trust it enough to use it and it is getting lonely. Sad
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drums008

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2008, 01:39:44 pm »

I'm new to this site and I'm not sure how it works. I have some questions about an old Jazz record by Wynton Kelly called "kelly at Midnight" Does anyone have and info on how it was recorded or any ideas of how to find out?
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compasspnt

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2008, 07:03:55 pm »

Why do they have to "increase the high frequency response" anyway?

What's "wrong"  with the response of other mics (ie fet 47, U-47, M-49, etc.) that they need "improving?"


Larry sounds right...glad you got it back, since you like it.
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Halfway Competent

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 08:11:50 pm »

They're not remaking a classic; they're making a new mic, inspired by a classic.  Kinda like a movie that was "inspired by real events" but has very little to do with actual history, even if it is reminiscent of actual history.

Maybe someone who's used a FET47 said, "You know, I like this mic, but I'm ALWAYS turning the high-shelf up a little bit.  I'd love to have this same mic, but brighter."  Or maybe they just said, "Hey, everyone loves the FET47, so let's say our FET mic sounds like one, but give it better HF response to make it sound more 'modern' and 'wow'!"  I guess the last one is more likely.  =)

Larry, that's an interesting thought.  I guess that could very well be what happened.

I need to find me a better kick drum mic.  What do y'all use that doesn't break the bank?  (read:  around $500 or less)
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Matt_Weston

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 09:01:14 pm »

I don't think Larry's response would be correct for my situation with a moving coil mic though since there are no polarized plates. Though it sounds very plausible for the AT. Does anyone have any insight into the D112 issue? The output was great, it sounded great, and then literally just jumped down to next to nothing. I actually didn't notice it at the time because I am in a home recording setup where the control room and studio floor are one. But a couple takes later the output started to rise over about a period of a minute until it was back to normal. It was very strange (and annoying to have to place the samples in after... as I typically don't like using samples).

To throw two cents at the $500 question: I am currently having great success with an EV PL20 (same as RE20 except for the paint job) and I also have an ATM25 that can be really nice.

I have yet to try the condenser on kick method but it is on my to-do list when I get the chance to experiment a bit.

Matt
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PookyNMR

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 09:11:20 pm »

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 20 March 2008 17:03

Why do they have to "increase the high frequency response" anyway?

What's "wrong"  with the response of other mics (ie fet 47, U-47, M-49, etc.) that they need "improving?"


The AT 4047 is not nearly as bright as most other modern condensers.  Compared to most modern offerings, it would be on the darker side, IMHO.

Also in IMHO the only thing that needs improving with the other mics (FET47, U-47, M-49, etc) is availability and price.


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Nathan Rousu

tom eaton

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 11:01:01 pm »

I like the 4047 quite a bit, and I use my two all the time.  I have had problems with the pads in some of the 40 series AT mics.  Two or three of my five have gone home for checkups.  

The capsule/backplate diagnosis sounds about right to me, too.

I agree that the 4047 is not at all bright, especially compared to the 4033 and 4050. It IS one of the few large diaphragm mics in production by a major manufacturer that is transformer coupled.   And that's a good thing.

Favorite bass drum setup at the moment is Shure Beta91 in and Yamaha SubKick outside.  A beautiful combination.  Other frequent suspects: Beyerdynamic TGX50 and Heil PR40.

-tom

compasspnt

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 11:12:06 pm »

People do seem to like the Heil 40.

I have a friend's here now for testing soon.
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MI

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 12:05:36 pm »

Halfway Competent wrote on Thu, 20 March 2008 20:11



I need to find me a better kick drum mic.  What do y'all use that doesn't break the bank?  (read:  around $500 or less)




How about the ADK S7 ?

http://adkmic.com/catalog/audiophileseries/S-7.php

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/349964.html

MI
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J.J. Blair

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2008, 06:39:12 pm »

2
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Halfway Competent

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Re: 4047 sounding weird in a kick
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 06:14:42 pm »

I'll get in touch with Audio Technica and see about sending it in for an eval.

It didn't cut out entirely, it just got quieter and the bass disappeared.  When I plugged it in later, it worked as expected.  However, it might be brighter than it was before, and maybe a touch less sensitive.  I guess that fits in with the "less low-frequency response" since I turned it up to compensate and heard more highs.  I can't tell for sure since I was just talking into it, listening on headphones (not something I do regularly, so I don't know what that should sound like).

Thanks for the info J.J.!
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