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Author Topic: Room Advice  (Read 1884 times)

tympano

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Room Advice
« on: May 20, 2004, 03:00:06 am »

Hey All,

This is my first post here in Harvey's Forum. I am, however, a long-time lurker...

My partner and I have recently gotten access to a room. Well, two rooms to be precise. One 20'x20' room with 20' cielings (you heard me right.) The other is an adjacent room, smaller and with 12' cielings, to be used as a control room.

The BIG room is my main concern. I have very little experience or knowledge in the area of acoustical space design, so any help anyone can offer would be much appreciated.

I really want to know what my major pitfalls will be with a room of these dimensions. The acoustics right now are fascinating but intimidating. I guess What i want to know is: What can I do to tame this beast without losing the good things about this space?

Thanks

Justin

PS--On a side note, I have virtually unlimited access to various densities of foam. Not acoustical foam per se, but lots of different types and densities anyway.
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Bill Park

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2004, 07:21:14 am »

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#sizes%20and%20shape s

Lots of good info here.  scroll down to the mode calulator, and run it.

 Bill
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Vertigo

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2004, 10:49:14 am »

I would be most concerned with that main room. A cube is pretty much the WORST shape possible when it comes to sonics because you have six reflecting surfaces in parallel with each other and you're going to have standing waves and phasing issues all over the place.

The good thing is that it sounds like you have a LOT of space to work with, so reshaping the room should be easy and you can create a near perfect room response using the golden section ratio (1 : 1.6 : 2.3). So using 20' for the largest dimension any combination of the following dimensions will work:

20'x14'x9'

So you can make the room 20' long, 14' wide, and 9' high, or 14' long, 9' wide, and 20' high, etc. I would recommend 20'h, 14'l, 9'w. The 20' high ceiling will eliminate phasing issues due to reflections from cymbals and other instruments coming from the ceiling, and you can use the extra 11 feet you're removing from the width as additional rooms for your isolation booths.

-Lance

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archtop

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2004, 11:24:27 am »

Well


If you have access to lots of dense foam I would try to get the corners filled with as much as you can muster for bass traps


since its so big maybe some portable gobos, and maybe let them hang on the wall
at an angle when there not in use


build a little cloud ?


Ethan Winer might have some insight as well
His Forum

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Richard Williams

Rob Darling

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 12:40:23 pm »

Buy Phillip Newell's "Recording Studio Design."  Also understand that what live room wants is very different from what a control room wants.  And that almost all the theories for how to evaluate and interpret the effects of room modes are just that- theories.  Buy the Newell book.  It is by far the best resource you can have.  
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John Ivan

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2004, 01:33:43 pm »

This is a huge topic,as most here know. I am facing similar decisions coming up because I too am building new rooms. I have 9' ceilings and I wish they were higher. What I have decided to do about width and length is make practical decisions on "size" based on comfort in the control room balanced against having enough tracking space for one large room and two iso rooms and a couple of amp iso booths. It occurs to me like this. Over time,different people have done very deep studies of mode problems in typical rooms. There are dimensions that are more ideal than others for sure but,I am ,for the most part unable to achieve these so, as long as the modal problems can be calculated and known to me, I am going to build so that the spaces make sense regarding the day to day work flow and so on. I think the key is being able to properly treat the rooms so I can have the best combination of good sounding rooms and "practical" spaces. There will be problems no matter what the dimensions are. Treating above 200 hz seems to be relatively "simple" compared to 200 hz and down. The early reflection issues can be dealt with using 703 built into frames and properly placed on walls and ceilings. I am now reading a great deal about how to properly deal with the standing waves in the bottom end. There is a lot to consider here to say the least. Mode spacing and amplitude. Which method to use? Tube traps? Panel absorbers? and a whole bunch of other stuff. I find that problems in the bottom end are the hardest to solve and if one really takes the time, they can make a huge difference in the way a given room sounds. One mistake I made in my last two rooms was over treating the high and mid end. Thankfully,I have more space this time around and I hope to have a more open sounding space while at the same time,dealing with reflections that can distort what goes into my ears,and mic's. This is harder than it first appears but,again, it is a doable thing if one is willing to dive in and read read read..
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tympano

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2004, 11:26:26 pm »

Thanks for all the advice so far fellas. My partner noticed my post here and sent me an email to correct me. Apparently my dimensions are not at all accurate.(I am currently 1500 miles away from the room and am working from memory.) According to him, the room is actually some sort of rhombus type shape. That is to say, there are at least two walls that are not paralell. I have implored him for exact measurements and they are apparently on the way.

Again, thanks for all your help. Robdarling, I had a look at Mr. Newell's book today at Borders and was mighty impressed. The price, however, put me off. A hundred bucks? That's like 10% of my current renovation budget. Bill, thanks for the tip to check out Mr. Winer's forum, I will put a post there as soon as I have exact dimensions.

If anyone has anything more to add, my ears are wide open.

--Justin
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Bill Park

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 10:01:06 am »

Philip Newell has several books, and not all of them cost $100.  But lets assume for a moment that they did.....   10% of your budget, and you get it right.  Seems like cheap insurance to me.  Read a lot before you drive that first nail.

By the way, if you get a 2 room ren done for $1000, I want you to supervise my next renovation.  My floor cost more than that.

 Bill
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malone

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Re: Room Advice
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2004, 11:30:53 am »

If you're looking for Philip Newell's "Recording Studio Design", you should check at http:/www.abebooks.com
as a search tip, make sure you spell Philip with 1 "l" or else you'll get no end to books on politically correct/incorrect jokes and australian jokes, if my memory serves me correctly.

There are usually a few floating around there. I got mine for $35.00 a little while ago. There are all varia of prices on there though. The library binding copies go for close to $200.00. Also, these are international sellers, so some of them mark up their prices to sell to people in areas of the world where it's near impossible to find the book. just be careful how much you spend. if you're patient, you can find almost any book on there for cheap. it's the different editions that really start costing money.

good luck with your room. if it's not too much trouble, digital pictures of the before and after would be instructive for some of us here. also, a rough cost breakdown of what materials you chose and why would be interesting to see too.



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