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Author Topic: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O  (Read 17283 times)

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« on: March 07, 2008, 12:23:16 PM »
Hi,
I do not see too many  mastering engineers using the the 192 I/O and the 96 I/O for a/d and d/a tasks. I am aware the 192 is much better than the 96 I/O.

a)Are they too far from the Apogee boxes?

I used the 02R96 for conversions and I'm sure I do need a better box.

Since I have this HD Accel rig with the Pendulum OCL2 ( at the moment with just 192 I/O Digital interfaces), which a/d d/a would your recommend me in this price range?
Apogee Roseta 200?Any other?

Thanks
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Alécio Costa Studio
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TotalSonic

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 12:53:51 PM »
To my ear the HD converters kind of falls into the middle in terms of quality, kind of similar to a lot of boxes out there now.  One thing they sound really bad with is when you clip them at all.

I'd personally look into Mytek or Lavry Blue if you were looking for a couple channels of better quality stuff.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  
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Bob Boyd

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 01:26:13 PM »
Lavry Blue or Black.  From what I've heard from others, the Blue and Black D/A is close but the Black A/D is superior to the Blue's A/D - closer to the Gold.  That's a very good thing.
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Bob Boyd
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T. Mueller

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 01:36:47 PM »
TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 11:53

One thing they sound really bad with is when you clip them at all.




I'm running into this right now with my setup... trying to get a better converter... probably a HEDD?
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TotalSonic

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 01:40:05 PM »
T. Mueller wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 13:36

TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 11:53

One thing they sound really bad with is when you clip them at all.




I'm running into this right now with my setup... trying to get a better converter... probably a HEDD?


If you want to get away with clipping then the Burl B2 ADC handles this the best of any converter under $4000 I've heard.
http://www.burlaudio.com

Best regards,
Steve Berson
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Viitalahde

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 02:20:19 PM »
TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 18:40

If you want to get away with clipping then the Burl B2 ADC handles this the best of any converter under $4000 I've heard.


What's the price? Tried to search..
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Jaakko Viitalähde
Virtalähde Mastering, Kuhmoinen/Finland
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TotalSonic

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 02:38:26 PM »
Viitalahde wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 14:20

TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 18:40

If you want to get away with clipping then the Burl B2 ADC handles this the best of any converter under $4000 I've heard.


What's the price? Tried to search..



$3000 US is what I've been quoted.  I've got to sell a few items that I'm not using that much here and then plan to get in a month or so.

It does have a subtle slight (to my ears euphonic) coloration so I'm keeping my Mytek Stereo96 ADC so I have option for a little bit different sound at capture  - but the Burl is very well worth auditioning.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  
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Patrik T

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 02:51:14 PM »
Like any general (mid) converter they do behave much more reasonable when feeded reasonable levels.

A common "problem" of this modern age it seems.

If I was forced to use a 192 to capture audio, I'd not pass above -12 dB from full scale. Most likely would things hover around -20 dB or so.


Best Regards
Patrik

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crna59

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2008, 06:03:38 PM »
I just picked up a Lynx Aurora for my HD rig and I'm really impressed with the integration and sound of it.
I think more people should put these units on their short list if you're using HD and have limited funds!

Regards,
Bruce
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Bill_Urick

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2008, 11:09:48 PM »
Why would you guys want to clip your converters?
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

TotalSonic

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2008, 11:17:43 PM »
Bill Urick wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 23:09

Why would you guys want to clip your converters?


In a perfect world the answer is that you never ever would want to clip at the input of your ADC at all!!  Unfortunately as we don't live in a perfect world clients often want their mastered tracks to have very high average levels.  Often by clipping at the input of an ADC it is possible to achieve these higher average levels with less artifacts than would have been possible only using a digital brick wall peak limiter.  Whether this is in fact the case varies with the source material and the sound desired for the master.  In general limiters tend to distort less while softening transients more, while clipping tends to distort more while softening transients less - so usually clipping works best when you are dealing with material that doesn't need to be kept clean but that you want to still have the percussive elements retain a little more snap and punch than you get from just limiting.  As always in mastering there are no hard and fast rules to this - there are a lot of variables to take into consideration as to what is the best approach - but clipping is in the end generally detrimental to a track's sound and should only used as a lesser of two evils.  As far as in recording - having a converter that is more forgiving of overs can sometimes save a track when you get a surprise on a few peaks - but otherwise there is never any reason to deliberately clip the input of a converter when tracking.

Best regards,
Steve Berson    
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Bill_Urick

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2008, 07:37:19 AM »
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation, Steve. How do the Lucid 9624 converters handle this kind of thing, any idea?
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2008, 11:28:38 AM »
Ok, Lavry and Mytek are top top.
But what might be better than the 192/96 and not cost a fortune?
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

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Jerry Tubb

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2008, 05:04:09 PM »
Al
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: a/d and d/a quality of the 192 I/O and 96 I/O
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2008, 06:44:42 PM »
Patrik T writes:"If I was forced to use a 192 to capture audio, I'd not pass above -12 dB from full scale. Most likely would things hover around -20 dB or so."

Patrik, I am recording digitally since 1983, can you explain the above?

I have used quite some converters in those 25 years, from 14 bit up onto 24 bit, and I see no reason, in my work at least, to hoover around
-20dBFS.

Schallfeldwebel
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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