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[melodeus]

Hi,

I tried to A/B some mics at the local stores but they never let me A/B
all at once so here i am. I am assembling a small home studio in a house
we rent so it is not acoustically treated.

I want principally to be able to record my acoustic guitars and Male and
Female voices. (I'll record Violin / Sax but not a priority right now
although if the same mics could work that would be great).

Music Style ranges from Folk, Pop to Rock.

So far i have:
 Monitors: Dynaudio BM6A
 Audio Interface: TC Konnekt 48

Budget: up to $200-800 but of course the less i spend the better as this is
a hobby

What do you think of the following combinations?

CHOICE BUDGET:
- Vocals: Studio Projects B1, $119.99, KEL
- Guitars:
   Shure SM81, $349.97
   OR Studio Projects C4, $360.00
   OR anything cheaper like the Shure SM57?
CHOICE MORE HIGH-END: (is it worth it?/will we hear a difference?)
- Vocals: Audio-Technica AT4050, $480.00
- Guitars: ??
CHOICE : MORE PERSONALITY??: (again worth it?)
- Studio Projects TB1, $299.99
- Studio Projects T3, $599.99
- BLUE Bluebird, $299.99
- BLUE Baby Bottle, $499.97
- Audio-Technica AT4047/SV, $549.97

I don't think that would fit into my budget but would you recommend to
add a better pre-amp? What about the Studio Projects tube pre-amp?

Thanks in advance for your feedback

[hargerst]

That's a tough call without hearing your voice, your guitar and some of the other things you'll be using the mics for.  The Studio Project B1 wouldn't be my first or second choice for vocals, but it's good for acoustic guitars.  Most of the mics you listed will give you "decent" results.

Also, look at the MXL V67, V67i, V69, and the MXL 960 for vocals. I particularly like the Studio Project T3 for guitar and vocals. And the Avant mic line and the ADK Hamburg are also pretty decent mics. The MXL 604's (or the Studio Project C4) are very good small diaphragm mics for instruments.

The Studio Project preamp is very decent for the money.  Don't get crazy with the "tube drive" and it will do a good job of amplifying stuff.

Since it's just a hobby, I'd probably start with an MXL 960 (about $150) or an MXL V67 (under $100) for vocals, a pair of used MXL 603's (around $100 for a pair) for your instruments, and a couple of Naiant MS-1O omnis (under $50 for a pair) for general purpose stuff.  That whole setup should run somewhere between $250 to $300.

[melodeus]

thanks for your input guys. I am doing this Blindfold Test:
http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200508.m ic_shootout.html#

Let me know if you know other tests like this.
The result promises to be interesting. I'll come back later.

[bilco]

melodeus wrote on Sun, 17 February 2008 00:20

Hi, I want principally to be able to record my acoustic guitars and Male and Female voices. (I'll record Violin / Sax but not a priority right now although if the same mics could work that would be great). Music Style ranges from Folk, Pop to Rock. So far i have:  Monitors: Dynaudio BM6A  Audio Interface: TC Konnekt 48 Budget: up to $200-800 but of course the less i spend the better as this is a hobby What do you think of the following combinations? CHOICE BUDGET: - Vocals: Studio Projects B1, $119.99, KEL - Guitars:    Shure SM81, $349.97    OR Studio Projects C4, $360.00    OR anything cheaper like the Shure SM57? CHOICE MORE HIGH-END: (is it worth it?/will we hear a difference?) - Vocals: Audio-Technica AT4050, $480.00 - Guitars: ?? CHOICE : MORE PERSONALITY??: (again worth it?) - Studio Projects TB1, $299.99 - Studio Projects T3, $599.99 - BLUE Bluebird, $299.99 - BLUE Baby Bottle, $499.97 - Audio-Technica AT4047/SV, $549.97 I don't think that would fit into my budget but would you recommend to add a better pre-amp? What about the Studio Projects tube pre-amp? Thanks in advance for your feedback

Harvey - "Since it's just a hobby, I'd probably start with an MXL 960 (about $150) or an MXL V67 (under $100) for vocals, a pair of used MXL 603's (around $100 for a pair) for your instruments, and a couple of Naiant MS-1O omnis (under $50 for a pair) for general purpose stuff. That whole setup should run somewhere between $250 to $300. "

Please learn from my mi$takes on this.  If it really is a hobby and you don't have a big budget for the hobby, take Harvey's advice and go with the mics he recommends in his last paragraph. I have used the MXL 603 on acoustic guitar and it is a really good sounding mic.  I have an SM81, but that MXL mic did a perfectly good job and will save you money.  On the vocal mic though, if your room is not treated and you are not going to treat it (like me), a good dynamic will reject flutter echo and cars driving by.  I have an SM7b, which I  recommend, but I could get by with my SM57 or SM58 just fine, for a hobby.  I rented a lot of condensor vocal mics in the $500 - $750 price range over a couple of years and although they are great in a treated environment, they really accentuate everything that is wrong with your room. If your room is treated, take his advice on the MXL67. There are ways to isolate the vocal mic without treating the whole room.  Search this forum.

I bet the preamps in your TC Konnekt 48 are perfectly usable, although there are plenty of threads out there that will tell you that you  just HAVE to get a better preamp .  If you were going to be opening a project studio as a business, it would be different.  But it is a hobby as you said.... I dropped $3,300 on this "hobby" last year and it did NOT buy me Harvey's ears or years of experience.  When he says something inexpensive sounds good, you can take it (and your savings!) to the bank.  There are a lot of very vocal opinions on other (not PSW) forums that trash these mics and would have you buy pro preamps and pro mics for your hobby; none of them have the combination of his years of experience and his quest to help you make good recordings while saving you $.  Ignore those other voices and read his "Big Mic thread that is a sticky.  That thread is way more valuable than the next piece of gear you buy.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/534/6837/

bilco

[seedyunderbelly.com]

If you are recording elec gtrs at all the seen SILVER 609  newer one is hard to beat I see them on ebay new for
$80

strat with that  and get an apex 460 if you want a LDC

[seedyunderbelly.com]

oops typo sennheiser NEW SILVER FACED  609

I have turned on a dozen folks to this everyone loves it

[melodeus]

I did the mics shoot-out test and this helped me sort things out.
I hope this is my last email about this topic for quite some times. So please don't hesitate to give me your feedback.

In the tests, I very much preferred:
   B   Sennheiser 421      $379.97
   D   Neumann TLM 103      $999.00
   E   Shure SM7      $349.97
   H   Rode NT-1      $229.95
   K   Schoeps P48      ???
   Q   AKG C-3000      $349.00
   P   Oktava 319      139 Euros = $205
   A   Studio Projects B1   $119.99
and did not like mics like Neumann U-87 and Audio Technica 4050!
This might talk about the inexperience of my ears ?
I don't know how to describe what i did not like about the U-87 but i found the AT4050 too clean somewhat with no life.

So now for a vocal mic, i am now looking into the 421, SM7 and the Oktava 319. It seems i would be happy with any of them.
I am tempted to go with the SM7b or the Senn 421 as they get much more warm reviews than the 319.
Any feedback about Senn 421 vs SM7b vs Oktava 319 for Vocal?
The only drawbacks about each mics are:
- Shure SM7: has very low output, and needs a good quality preamp to drive it properly???
- Sennheiser 421: annoying/fragile stand adapter??
- Oktava 319: not consistent???

What Mic would you then recommend for acoustic guitar, should i go with a small condenser: like the SM81, AT4041 or the cheaper Oktava MK012 or CAD e70 or should i go again with a Dynamic mic like a SM57 or a Heil PR-40 or a pair of Studio Projects C4 ?

I am also tempted by the cheap Cascade FAT HEAD II to add a cheap different paintbrush.

[scottoliphant]

i had a singer songwriter friend who recorded EVERYTHING through one of the older cad e-100's with amazing results. more than anything, i think he learned how to really use that one piece of gear amazingly well, which could be true for a thousand different mics. good luck!

[DanaB]

Dear Forum -

Sometimes when you wander off the beaten path you can find the real bargains.

A few years ago I took a chance with an ADK Vienna Pro.  I play guitar and sing.  I just loved what the Vienna did for my voice.  In fact, I liked it so much that I bought their entire warehouse to become the new North American Distributor.

Take it from me, not as a distributor, but as a musician, the ADK Gear just sounds good!!  Good recording technique plus these mics = exquisitely good tracks.

The new S-7 in particular, seems to sound good on everything.  I have used it on acoustic guitar, banjo, and drum overheads.  It really can do it all.  The A6 is probably a little more appropriate for acoustic instruments, but if you could only afford one mic, it would be the S7.

(See elsewhere in this forum).

All the guys in our office are singers and guitar/bass players, and we only sell what we believe in!

ADK is worth looking into !!!  Of course I'm biased, but have to point out that I owned/loved the gear before becoming their distributor.

[Jimibeen]

As always, when buying gear, remember that it will only sound as good as the weakest link in your chain.
if you havnt done so already, make sure to upgrade your cables. some high quality canare cable with neutrik connectors can make as big a difference as any microphone, if you are using any store bought cables.

[JDNelson]

If you're recording at home, decent acoustic treatment is a must or you're going to end up with ringing, flutter echo, resonances and other nasty manners of coloration imbedded in your tracks, no matter how good a mic you use.  Your best bet is to visit Francis Manzella's board or Ethan Winer's web site and learn more.