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Author Topic: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???  (Read 11063 times)

fzfile

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Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« on: May 17, 2004, 05:32:55 pm »

From what i've gathered about these two units they are decent "balls-y" pre-amps.... especially on drums.

But if the 1272 and the 2108 had Battle Roy-al which would be the pound for pound best overall (read versitile with character) pre???

I am probably also going for a Sytek unit and as I've heard that has a cleaner character, I would like to also get 2 channels of ummph.

Right now I have barely entry level pres.
My M30 mixer, and a VTB-1 and an Audiobuddy.

Around 2 grand is really the max I can do for a while (for pres) and this upgrade will have to do for quite some time.
The rest of my dough will is tied up in a DA7 board and an ADAT HD24.

I want to get a decent amount of variety and channels so I am figuring the Sytek (2 BB and 2 stock) and then two "character" channels will do the trick.

Any thoughts??

Thanks


-mike

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fzfile

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2004, 11:26:35 am »

Nobody????

Anyone???

-MIKE
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Zappa -- "So, with your long hair, I guess that makes ! you a woman."
Frank Zappa's response -- "So, with your wooden leg, I guess that
makes you a table."

andre t

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2004, 12:40:12 pm »

I have a Vintech Dual 72 and have used the UA 610 preamp. Different beasts. I preferred to buy the Vintech, since I'm more into the "N" word sound than tubes. UA is softer, maybe rounder. I find the Vintech punchier, and it cuts in the mix a bit better. Also, it has something that makes things appear to be more in-your-face. Love it. But hey, if you want big punch, go for API, if you want balls, "N" clones (if you can't afford the real thing, but the Vintech is so close it's scary. at least for the tests I made).
Never used the 2108, so I don't know how different it is from the 610.

andr
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redelephant

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2004, 12:42:16 pm »

You can never go wrong with NEVE!

I haven't heard the Vintech 1272, but you should look at the Seventh Circle Audio N72 or the Brent Averill 1272. They both a great character and an overwhelming sound.

My $.02.
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yammer

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2004, 08:22:07 pm »

I have three 2108s and love them. In general I'm a bigger fan of solid-state pres over tube- specifically for rock. You are right that the 2108 is great for drums, but its also great for electric guitars and bass, with loads of character and tonal control. The 2108 has gain and level controls, and its ideal state, in my opinion, is with the gain moderately/aggresively saturated. Excellent for an aggressive, yet dimensional sound. It's also within your price range. The 2108 is based on the UA 1108 mic/line amplifer, one of the best modualr amps made. http://uaudio.com/products/analog/2108/index.html


Unfortunately I can't say I've compared it with the 1272, but they are probably similar.
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fzfile

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2004, 11:46:37 pm »

Thanks for the input.

I've been doing a little digging around.

I thinks the 2108 will be a little more versatile for me.... and I have yet to hear anything really negative about it.

It sounds like the 1272 is a really excellent instrument (line) pre ..... apparently what the pre its based off of was actually designed for ..... or at least what it became .... and the gain seems to be a bit of an issue for some although I guess you can get a mod from the factory to give 60dB gain.

It just sounds like everything I hear about the 2108 ...... solid state with saturated character if desired .... is what I think I want.

Unfortunately nobody local carries these units so I cant actually A/B them before buying but I dont think I will be doing myself a disservice with the UA.

Especially since I have and have always had comparative crap thus far.

And from what just about everyone says about the Sytek unit I will be well rounded two shades of clean.

-mike





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Joe Pine (60's talk show host who sported a wooden leg) to Frank
Zappa -- "So, with your long hair, I guess that makes ! you a woman."
Frank Zappa's response -- "So, with your wooden leg, I guess that
makes you a table."

lucey

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2004, 12:28:03 am »

fzfile wrote on Tue, 18 May 2004 22:46

Thanks for the input.

I've been doing a little digging around.

I thinks the 2108 will be a little more versatile for me.... and I have yet to hear anything really negative about it.

It sounds like the 1272 is a really excellent instrument (line) pre ..... apparently what the pre its based off of was actually designed for ..... or at least what it became .... and the gain seems to be a bit of an issue for some although I guess you can get a mod from the factory to give 60dB gain.

It just sounds like everything I hear about the 2108 ...... solid state with saturated character if desired .... is what I think I want.

<ed>



The 2108 is great on snare and the occasional old sounding acoustic.  A 1272 is also an effect pre IMO.

Yet if you want negatives on the 2108 there are plenty ...  too raspy, papery/crappy and undefined for many things.  Smashing a snare = perfect.  1st, 2nd or 3rd call for Vocal, no.  Guitar, no. Bass, no.

And from Sytek to 2108 (or 1272) is like a Communist marrying an Evangelical Fundamentalist .... why not look at the middle of the range and not the edges?

-API and Neve are always useful
-Hardy is very warm/clear
-GTQ2 is a cleaner Neve
-Phoenix is a cleaner warm than Hardy,

etc.





If I was building up a collection from scratch I'd begin in the middle and discover what was my personal center of gravity, then go out in many directions.  To begin with extremes seems ... well ... extreme.




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Brian Lucey
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fzfile

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2004, 12:30:03 pm »

Hmmmmmm......

Thanks for the input Brian.
What you say about building from the middle range out make perfect sense.

I guess I hadnt gotten the impression that the 2108 was that much of an extreme, though.

One of the things I had heard about it that seemed to put it on more middle ground was that by not cranking the input gain and adjusting the output it gave a very clean, yet distinctive, sound but pushing the input into saturation was where it shined.

Also, most of the other things I've read kinda describe a FAT sound from the 2108.

When you say raspy and papery it makes me think "thin".

I was also under the impression that the Sytek was one of the best bang-for-buck clean and "less colored" sounding workhorse type units out there.

Is it your impression that the Sytek is a one trick pony kind of pre???

I guess the fact that its 4 channels for under a grand is also appealing to me as a project studio guy.

My applications are mostly rock (heavier rock) but sometimes acoustic and electronic stuff.

-mike

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Joe Pine (60's talk show host who sported a wooden leg) to Frank
Zappa -- "So, with your long hair, I guess that makes ! you a woman."
Frank Zappa's response -- "So, with your wooden leg, I guess that
makes you a table."

ernie5

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2004, 01:39:41 pm »

I read "raspy" to mean fuzzy and "papery" to mean two dimensional and possibly dry, but I'm just guessing.  I've heard mostly good things about the 2108, but haven't used it.  I think the M610/2-610 would probably be a more exteme comparison than the 2108 (with the Sytek, that is).

Have you thought of the Great River NV series?  Even just one channel (which is what I have) goes a long way -- great on a number of things: electric guitar, vocals (dynamic or condenser), snare, kick.

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fzfile

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2004, 11:22:39 pm »

Hmmm.

Well I have looked around and the GR NV's get lots of acclaim.
Thats a little more per channel than I really want to go.
I am really trying to keep things in pairs if possible.

I would like to get 6 channels out of 2K.

Now ..... for the same price as the 2108 ...... what about the OSA Trkpck ????

Is the basic jist of classic benchmark pre sounds, that API is big and clean and NEVE is warm and round??????

I know its not as simple as that but is that the right generalizations??







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Joe Pine (60's talk show host who sported a wooden leg) to Frank
Zappa -- "So, with your long hair, I guess that makes ! you a woman."
Frank Zappa's response -- "So, with your wooden leg, I guess that
makes you a table."

RicSwanson

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2004, 11:17:24 am »

I recently built 2 channels of the Seventh Circle Audio N72 and I love 'em. Admittedly I don't have a lot of experience using 'real' Neves, but the N72 seems to my ears to be an excellent choice for anything I put through it.
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Jbuntz

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2004, 01:17:54 pm »

Sytek a one trick pony?  Hell no.  That's what the 2108 and Dual 72 are.  The Sytek usually comes with two different opamps for two slightly different textures.  1 & 2 are clean and fast, 3 & 4 are slightly thicker.  Not a 1272 but soft on top so it works well on overheads, vocals, or whatever.  At any rate, the syteks work great on drums in general.  Highly reccomended to get your preamp count up so you can spend your extra 1200 on something like a 1272 or whatever you decide on.
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Jan Folkson

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2004, 08:32:53 pm »

Amongst several other pres, I've got a 2108 and have used it on many sources with very good results.  I've never tried the vintechs but I've got a pair of broadcast neves racked by Brent and they're pretty different from the 2108 and I find that I use both quite often.
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fzfile

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2004, 11:51:24 am »

Well, thats a little more encouraging, but it sounds like maybe the Sytek and something else might be a lttle more versitle option.

Possibly a OSA MP1-A or MP1-C TrkPck.

Or maybe a Seventh Circle SCA 272.

-mike
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Joe Pine (60's talk show host who sported a wooden leg) to Frank
Zappa -- "So, with your long hair, I guess that makes ! you a woman."
Frank Zappa's response -- "So, with your wooden leg, I guess that
makes you a table."

fzfile

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2004, 11:54:31 am »

I just realized that Andre T. answered my API/Neve characteristics question at the top of the thread.

sorry.....

API = punch

Neve = balls.

-mike
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Joe Pine (60's talk show host who sported a wooden leg) to Frank
Zappa -- "So, with your long hair, I guess that makes ! you a woman."
Frank Zappa's response -- "So, with your wooden leg, I guess that
makes you a table."

andre t

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Re: Vintech 1272 vs. UA 2108 ???
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2004, 08:49:45 am »

fzfile wrote on Sat, 22 May 2004 12:54

I just realized that Andre T. answered my API/Neve characteristics question at the top of the thread.

sorry.....

API = punch

Neve = balls.

-mike


Hey, maybe that's over simplifying the whole thing, since you can definitely get balls from API and vice-versa. But, as always, YMMV.

Take care,

andr
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