R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47  (Read 26621 times)

bigbone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1297
B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« on: February 13, 2008, 05:12:27 PM »

I'm in a market for a U47, and i wonder if his is like the original, or that BLUE restore it and it's not even close to it...any idee please.........

All the best..

  http://cgi.ebay.com/Neumann-U47-Blue-Tube-Microphone_W0QQite   mZ160206740474QQihZ006QQcategoryZ133011QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem
Logged

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2008, 06:54:25 PM »

In all likelihood, this mic probably no longer has all or most of the original, sound shaping elements present in a genuine Neumann U47: tube, transformer, and maybe capsule as well.

My advice;
Buy this mic only after you have auditioned its sound thoroughly, and after understanding that this microphone will not have the sound or a genuine U47.

By the way: I find the ad copy a bit misleading, frankly.

This is not a comment on the sound of this mic- it may be stunning, for all I know-  but a comment on how unfortunate it is that vendors are so sloppy (or deliberate?) with placing their product in the vicinity of one of the most sought-after microphones in the world.
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 07:41:15 PM »

I agree with Klaus.  Having owned one of these, I can say they are fine mics, but I prefer a U47 which has not been "Blue'd."  Their value should be substantially less than an unaltered U47.  But they are well put together, and if you are comfortable paying that type of money, then have have it.  

Just understand that it is not longer a real U47.  That being said, I still made some epic recordings with the one I had.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

bigbone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1297
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 07:45:45 PM »



Thank you guys for you advice, i do appreciate it, and it make me think about that bid.......for that money,you are right, i got to auditon the mic before....thank's again
Logged

Steve Hudson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1013
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 10:23:51 AM »

If you live near a Guitar Center, you might want to ask them what they want for a Blue "47", as they bought a large lot of them and I've been told by one of their pro audio reps that they have been having trouble selling them. There may be a deal to be had if you like the mic.
Logged
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."

- Hunter S. Thompson should have said this, but didn't

http://www.myspace.com/steventoddhudson

seedyunderbelly.com

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2465
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 11:06:33 AM »

Before BLUE went ""consumer""/GC   they offered several small runs of custom microphones  some RFT  7151 rebuilds -  many reworked Lomo mics etc.  Cleaned up RCA ribbons, M49s  Even some perfect Original vintage Neumann examples. (I bought a mint SM2 from them that is still killer 15 years later)  I have a very interesting MM5 I bought from them as well as some KU3as etc.  (also parts etc.)

I have owned many mics from this "pre BLUE" BLUE period.  Many of them have some vintage components   some do not!

From my exclusive 1st hand expirience Sometimes:

 THE MICS WERE MISREPRESENTED WHEN SOLD I WAS TOLD THE 47S  HAD ALL ORIG STOCK OLD PARTS WITH NEW WIRING AND COSMETICS  --THIS IS NOT THE CASE.  

ALSO EVERYTHING  THAT  I BOUGHT   FROM  THEM  WAS SAID TO COME WITH A  WITH A "VERBAL" ""LIFETIME"" """WARRANTY"""  THAT IS NOT BACKED UP IN MY EXPIRIENCE.  When I called BLUE  with a problem after the GC-ifacation  I was told by BLUE that "We are no longer dealing with or supporting those mics"

Many of the things they sold me outperformed other seemingly healthly vintage mics in my collection. The U47s certainly being an exception.

If you see a "47" with an ef86... It is Possibly a "new" Blue mic with a value of well less than %50 of a real one.(IMO)  It Also comes with a completly different sound. not terrible and not a 47.

I have found that a mic with many if not all new variants of pieces is not a "refurb".

 The word refurb is sometimes used to perpetuate an illusion.  I think the idea is to confuse the buyer that it is a vintage item to get a vintage premium price.  BLUE certainly interacted with me in this regard.(IMO)

Having said that again, some of the work that the Old BLUE did was nice,  some of the only things I kept from them was a pair of reworked Leipzig 7151.  I have no idea what they put in the bayonett mounts they are not m7s,   They sound great though
(keep in mind this was years before they went big) Whatever they did to a LOMO 1913a pair  sounded amazing..  

**These 47s are the worst of it if you ask me.

For the record I have not listened to any of their new products and am not commenting on them.

Unless it is priced right(?) or you love the sound of it (I liked my Vintage Real and Clone U47s Much better...)  BEWARE

Something very cheesy about a different design in the same chasis when it is represented as the real thing and It Is Not.  

---------
Make Bad take good Make good Take Bad





J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 11:24:09 AM »

BTW, I bought my Blue 47 direct from them, and it was not misrepresented as to being all original.  That was the point of putting the EF86 badge on it.  But I did not know enough at the time to know that the VF14 and BV8 were so integral.  

Was that GC that misrepresented it, John?  Or are you saying Blue did?
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

seedyunderbelly.com

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2465
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 12:12:40 PM »

I was told it was an orig refurb with orig old style parts from BLUE,  when I asked about it  and why it said "ef86"  more of the story came out.  I sold them for a 1k loss each.
to GC  funny enough.

I allready had previous expirience/owned some vintage neumans so I was able to see "hey this is not that.."

I was a bit naive I guess. I was fairly young and new  so I think they may have let it fly a little further.

Gone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 431
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 09:01:37 PM »

With such a mic, it seems that at some point, the only "U47" parts that would be left are the logo badge and the serial number badge. I understand that many of these have Blue capsules, and with a new transformer, different tube (and, as I understand it, entirely different electronics to work with that tube), as well as possibly a new housing tube and basket... exactly what makes it a "U47"?

If I buy a Blue Cactus, pry off the badge, and put a genuine U47 serial number badge on it, is it a U47?

Klaus,

the mic in the listing claims "serial #5557". Am I correct in thinking that would have been among the last U47s produced? In that case, it would have been Nuvistor-equipped, K47, and which transformer?
Logged

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 09:34:40 PM »

I asked Skipper about the capsules, and he said that most of them were K47 backplates, reskinned with their tension ring that said "Blue" on it.  Very nice sounding, though.  I compared it against a K47 that had been reskinned by Doug Walker, and I actually thought the Blue one sounded better!  It had more low end.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: Neumann U47
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2008, 01:02:20 PM »

Nick Eipers wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 18:01



Klaus, the mic in the listing claims "serial #5557". Am I correct in thinking that would have been among the last U47s produced? In that case, it would have been Nuvistor-equipped, K47, and which transformer?


I am not at my data base right now. but serial numbers of 5000+ was the end of the run, as fare as I recall.
As to "originally Nuvistor equipped" U47s- to my knowledge, Neumann never sold a U47 mic with the Nuvistor ex factory but offered Nuvistor kits to U47 customers when they could no longer supply VF14 as spare parts.
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

shauli

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2009, 05:17:16 PM »

I recently acquired Telefunken, Model U47, Blue Modified s/n 0203B.

I am trying to find out any information about this Mic. Is any of it the original components. Is it true U47 sound?

Anyway to find out anything about it?

Thanks.index.php/fa/13929/0/
Logged
Shaul Dover
Sweatshop Studios
914-767-0869 www.sweatshopstudios.com
Analog meets Digital and lovin' it


Arf! Mastering

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 889
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 05:58:50 PM »

Unfortunately, it is likely 100% clone.  No original parts.

Some of the early Blue 47s were actual refurbs with new parts added as needed, but at a certain point Blue began producing knock-offs.  Sound is similar to a real U47 with K47 capsule, but not quite as good as the original.   However, they can still be very good tube mics.

Logged
“A working class hero is something to be,
Keep you doped with religion and sex and T.V.”
John Lennon

"Large signals can actually be counterproductive.  If I scream at you over the phone, you don’t hear me better. If I shine a bright light in your eyes, you don’t see better.”
Dr. C.T. Rubin, biomechanical engineer

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2009, 05:59:31 PM »

You can find out a lot about what components are used in this mic by posting several close-up pictures of the mic-amp and capsule area insides here; then wait for expert opinions to give you the lowdown.
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

David Bock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 333
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 06:02:01 PM »

just when the horse was going to the glue factory....it comes back!
I don't remember what forum it's on, but I've done extensive evaluation of this question before, perhaps more than once. Give a search to that "other" pro audio forum.

Jeff Stuart Saltzman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 06:02:41 PM »

Hi Shaul---just out of curiosity---what does the attenuator knob on the PSU do?
Logged
Jeff

Arf! Mastering

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 889
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2009, 06:37:36 PM »

It's a remote pattern control, not sure if it's engaged on the Blue 47 or not.
Logged
“A working class hero is something to be,
Keep you doped with religion and sex and T.V.”
John Lennon

"Large signals can actually be counterproductive.  If I scream at you over the phone, you don’t hear me better. If I shine a bright light in your eyes, you don’t see better.”
Dr. C.T. Rubin, biomechanical engineer

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2009, 12:06:51 AM »

Jeff Stuart Saltzman wrote on Wed, 16 December 2009 15:02

Hi Shaul---just out of curiosity---what does the attenuator knob on the PSU do?


It is NOT a pattern selector.

This feature on the Bottle adjusts the capsule voltage.  If they are feeding two separate voltages to this mic, then it probably does the same, otherwise you're adjusting both the heater voltage and the capsule voltage at the same time, as you would by using a variac on a real U47.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

nob turner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 383
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2009, 06:06:09 PM »

if you do a search on this forum, there is a thread i started last spring about a blue "refurbed" M49 i briefly owned which had absolutely no neumann parts in it.  not even the shell was original neumann brass, this was made of steel and painted to look like a nickel finish.

oh, and it had multiple transistors in it, in addition to the tube, which may have been a knockoff of an ac701.  it wasn't a bad sounding mic, though it had a terrible susceptibility to rfi.  still, caveat emptor.
Logged
Why do you think they call it the control room?
www.garymankin.com

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2009, 06:43:56 PM »

The Blue49 which I had here briefly had a real AC701 in it.  It was an OK mic, but did not sound anything like how a M49 should sound.  
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

shauli

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2009, 03:22:09 PM »

Happy Holidays,

So here are the pictures of this Blue-Telefunken -U47.

Your expertize comments are welcome.
index.php/fa/13955/0/
Logged
Shaul Dover
Sweatshop Studios
914-767-0869 www.sweatshopstudios.com
Analog meets Digital and lovin' it


shauli

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2009, 03:23:40 PM »

and another image.index.php/fa/13956/0/
Logged
Shaul Dover
Sweatshop Studios
914-767-0869 www.sweatshopstudios.com
Analog meets Digital and lovin' it


Martin Kantola

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2009, 03:32:17 PM »

Not ONE Neumann made part in there! Nice pics, thanks for sharing.

Martin
Logged

mwurfl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2009, 04:16:04 PM »

The tube doesn't look fully seated in its socket to me.  Is that the way it's intended to be??

Mark W
Logged
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted, counts."

-- Albert Einstein

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2009, 05:43:51 PM »

Martin Kantola wrote on Thu, 24 December 2009 12:32

Not ONE Neumann made part in there! Nice pics, thanks for sharing.

Martin


I was just about to say the exact same thing.  

The person responsible for foisting these fakes on us has personally insisted to me on more than one occasion that there was a real Neumann mic for each one of these, and that some parts, like the bottom bell, needed to be made, because suitable replacements were not available.  Now, either mics like this were made without said person's knowledge, or they lied to my face.

I don't like either possible answer. (...)
Hopefully the person of whom I'm speaking reads this, as well as anybody else who calls me their "friend."
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Mike Cleaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 610
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2009, 09:58:02 PM »

Which begs the question:
What happened to all the original Neumann parts when they "refurbished" these microphones?
Surely, some or all of the components were good, including some capsules and maybe even some VF-14's.
What happened to those parts?
Were they re-sold to other Neumann owners as replacement parts at highly inflated prices?
Logged
Mike Cleaver Broadcast Services
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Broadcast Studio Design and Consulting
Voiceover Talent
Newscaster

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2009, 01:20:34 AM »

Or did they ever exist?
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

nob turner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 383
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2009, 03:14:03 PM »

it is understandable that one might begin by refurbishing real neumanns and see how much money these mics command.  if people like your refurbs, and most of the necessary parts are being remanufactured, all you need to do is cross the line in your mind from that to imitation.  for some of us, the line is wide and high.  for some others, it may not be such a long walk to fraud.

the world is full of frauds: fake rolexes, guccis, you name it.  it is disappointing to think that it can happen in the backwater of pro audio, but...
Logged
Why do you think they call it the control room?
www.garymankin.com

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2009, 05:06:13 PM »

It's all in the wording.

In this era of high temptation to fudge words, because buyers are ignorant, and because they are ignorant, they can be taken advantage of, we all must be vigilant to insist on using common definitions of words in the description of microphones.

I have no problem when someone offers a "meticulously executed copy of a Rolex Submariner". Its clear from such wording that there will probably be no genuine Rolex part in such a watch.    

But the title of this thread is false. This is not an original U47 that has been modified (as 'modified' describes an original item that has been altered) but, as the pictures show, this item is a copy (and a bad one) of an original item.

It's already sneaking up on us in the microphone world: copies of M7 capsules are no longer called "a copy of an M7" but referred to as "New M7 made by Thiersch" or a copy of Telefunken's ELA M 251 is now referred to as "New Telefunken ELA M 251".

Again: Please always point out when a seller fudges commonly assumed definitions of words. Because if we don't we will end up in Babylon, and, after a while no one even will bother to protest anymore when a repeat show on TV is called an "Encore Presentation", and old people are euphemized into "Seniors".
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

seedyunderbelly.com

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2465
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2009, 06:39:49 PM »

JJ,
I tried to say the truth before here and the thread was closed ...

I believe some of the mics I bought from them were not represented as they should have been BY A LONG SHOT.
J.





Mike Cleaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 610
Re: B.L.U.E. -Modified Neumann U47
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2009, 05:40:58 AM »

Someone has one of these listed on EBay right now for $15k!!!!


Telefunken Neumann U47 BLUE MOD EF 86 Microphone Mint

Time left:   9 days 17 hours (Jan 09, 201019:51:27 PST)

Price:   US $15,000.00   Buy It Now
or   
Best Offer:      
      
Item number:   180451004133
Logged
Mike Cleaver Broadcast Services
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Broadcast Studio Design and Consulting
Voiceover Talent
Newscaster
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.111 seconds with 21 queries.