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[slicraider]

I've used the 660 but was looking for some of your experiences with this particular unit.

Rick Slater

[crypticglobe]

Yes, I have.   It's the same thing basically.... just a stereo version.  What do you want know about it?

It's great for some things... not for others.  I almost always like it for electric guitars, and drums groups.  It can be cool for vocals and bass.   I don't like it for 2 bus most of the time, but if you are going for a vintage color thing.... it could be just the ticket.

At any rate.... it does have a "sound" or "character" that is REALLY nice for the things it's good at.  I absolutely adore it on electric guitars.   Just fantastic.

I rent them every then and then here in Nashville.  Gear for Days has one, and I think Underground Sound still has theirs.   It's certainly too expensive to buy... and usually to expensive to rent as well.  Especially since I have a distressor, and I can usually get exceptional compression out of it for most any of those same sources.

[slicraider]

Thanks Steve,

I was thinking about using it on my snare mult for a project at the end of the month. Since it's stereo maybe I'll through up a mic out in front of the kit and squash it till it bleeds with the other side.

Rick Slater

[Ross Hogarth]

Eric, I do not know you but I get the feeling that you think you know it all or at least a lot and I get the impression you DO know a lot ..... why not share it freely instead of holding on to it to prove someone else wrong ?
Just an observation  ........... sorry if I offend ...........
anyway
I have been using the Fairchild 670 for a long time. It can be gods compressor if used on the right things. The size of the transformer and the amount of tubes give enormous sonic size and weight.
It sub-mixes a drum sub-mix like no other, it compresses guitars with punch and sheen like no other .... it compresses the piss out of overheads and room .... on vocal you must carefully make sure it is not releasing to slowly ...really the disadvantage of fixed time constants ...
I like what Eric and the bomb factory guys did with their unbelievable emulations of the great vintage compressors but the real thing is still the real thing ...the 670 has a distortion that is very musical but you will have to be careful when using it on a mix buss since it is a commitment.
I will let Eric fully explain the lateral/vertical since i do not choose to compete with his expertise.

[slicraider]

Thanks Steve.

I usually like to create a sub mix for the drum kit when mixing but I like to print a mult of the snare which I gate and compress before printing to whatever the media du jour. I feel it sounds better when I mult the snare at tracking because it usually ends up on 2" which I feel helps it feel a little better than waiting till the mix. I feel it also affects all the overdubs having the snare feel more polished.

Rick

[SimonP]

Hopefully those in the know havent lost interest with this thread.

I've never used a Fairchild but I do have the UAD card with the plug-in.

If anyone can give a more detailed explanation of the usage of the Lateral/Vertical controls i'd love to hear it.

[yammer]

Getting back to the question; I'm not sure, but I don't think the author was referring to anything more than having two channels to play with if he rented a 670. But to add some more info about Lat/Vert- Lat/Vert mode on the 670 was specifically for vinyl mastering. Not necessarily as useful a feature today (unless vinyl mastering!), but it can create some stereo imaging effects when applied to a stereo signal. BTW, UA's plug-in version of the 670 emulates Lat/Vert.

[Fibes]

Just put it on a drum buss, the snare and kick up the middle with the OHs and rooms outside and fuck with the lat/vert controls and how they interact with the M/S of the audio until you find something pleasing.

I really like them on guitars and guitar submixes, but to be honest, haven't touched a real one with teeth in years.

[Erik]

crypticglobe wrote on Thu, 20 May 2004 11:21

However, what I said is still true.  The 670, and the 660 sound almost indentical on a single mono source.

Nope, what you said was that the Fairchild 670 is "the same thing basically.... just a stereo version" of the Fairchild 660.

Which it isn't.  For starters, it isn't a stereo compressor, it's dual mono.  Second, even on mono sources, the 660 and 670 sound different.  They use a different tube in the sidechain.  And third, there's the Lat/Vert matrix mode of the 670.

Quote:

We are all aware that there are 5 (I believe) different modes on the 670 that relate to how two seperate signals going through it relate to each other.  I will admit to not having tried all of them extensively.

There is a switch with six positions.  It is the attack and release times of the unit.  If you tried experimenting with the attack and release times, or even knew what the knob was for, perhaps you'd find more uses for this compressor that you rent so frequently.

Dunno about you, but when I spend $700/week to rent a piece of gear, I take the time to figure out what the damn thing does.

Quote:

All that being said..... ALL of my information was correct, and gleaned from MANY uses of the actual hardware.

Your information is not correct and you obviously have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Quote:

I am not name calling, or attacking you... You are a bitter old fool... your crappy little plug-in venture... you were too chicken... If you had half a brain... you crappy little code sounds like dog crap... You are still an old, hateful, pyschotic fool.

Yup, no name calling or attacks there.

Keep on rockin',
--Erik

[crypticglobe]

Erik wrote on Thu, 20 May 2004 10:45

crypticglobe wrote on Thu, 20 May 2004 11:21 However, what I said is still true.  The 670, and the 660 sound almost indentical on a single mono source. Nope, what you said was that the Fairchild 670 is "the same thing basically.... just a stereo version" of the Fairchild 660. --Erik

And I am ABSOLUTELY correct.  Run a mono signal through one side of a 670, and then the same signal through a 660, with the same settings, and you will get the same result.  I have done it, I know it to be true.  They are basically the same thing.  The sound the same.   You can disagree with me all you want... but if your 670 and your 660 don't sound the same on the same settings... one of them is broken.

About all the rest of your venom..... Erik.... when I rent gear... I use it to get a sound I like.   That means.... (as slipperman might say), I start turning all the little knobbies until it sounds good.   I twisted the lat/vert knobbies on stereo signals for a LONG time before somebody actually told me the details of what they really did.   I don't think my use of them is getting any better results now than it did before I knew.  I think it might even have been better before... because I used my EARS... and not a bunch of technical CRAP running through my head.... which seems to be all that matters to you.

That approach has always worked VERY well for me.  And... I was not talking about the attack/release settings.  I know there are 6 of those.    I was talking about the number of possible combinations that you could acheive using a variety of settings with the "lat" and "vert" controls, and linked/unlinked, etc.   I have found 5 different combinations that vary in usefulness when working with a stereo signal.

And..... That's WAY too much to spend for a week with the Fairchild.  I get a good rate when I need it... because I am nice guy... and people like me.   I suspect if your rental price was based on the same standards.... they wouldn't even rent to you... for ANY price.  You are positively venomous.

--edited by moderator--

[David Bock]

   You can disagree with me all you want... but if your 670 and your 660 don't sound the same on the same settings... one of them is broken.

I've heard many 670's that didn't sound so good, and many where one channel is great and the other sucks.
There is a minor difference in bias circuits between the 670 & 660, I was never able to see or hear a difference in operation or testing when I built my first 660 (I tried both circuits).
But this "duan mono" thing is bothering me: ordinarily, if a two channel audio device shares a power supply and enclosure, we call it "stereo", but if there were two psu's in the same enclosure for a two channel device we would call it "dual mono". Thus the Fairchild 670 is a STEREO device, not dual mono.
regards,
David Bock

[Erik]

dbock wrote on Thu, 20 May 2004 17:53

But this "dual mono" thing is bothering me: ordinarily, if a two channel audio device shares a power supply and enclosure, we call it "stereo", but if there were two psu's in the same enclosure for a two channel device we would call it "dual mono". Thus the Fairchild 670 is a STEREO device, not dual mono.

With an EQ, two channels can be called "stereo" if you set the knobs the same.

Not so with a compressor.

The main feature of a stereo compressor is the ability to compress a stereo track without shifting the stereo image.  This is achieved by mixing left and right signals that feed a single sidechain internally.  The computed gain reduction is then applied evenly to both channels on the output.

You need extra circuitry and wires to do this.  It's the 'side chain link' button, the extra cable in the back, the 'stereo accessory' or whatever.

The Fairchild 670 does not offer this feature.  It does not have the circuitry.  It is not one of the 'five stereo modes' offered by Mayor Cubase's magic rental unit.

--Erik

[David Bock]

ALL of the 670's I've repaired or used to record had a little toggle switch labeled "stereo". It linked the control voltages between channels, making it a stereo limiter. You may disagree with the accuracy of this but it's still a stereo limiter, used EVEN BY MASTERING ENGINEERS AS SUCH. You will of course, have to excuse the recording industry for misusing your new definition of "stereo limiter", but, even if it's a misuse it's common enough to not be called wrong. In fact, if I call any of the rental companies here and ask for a stereo Fairchild, they send me one!
Like "karaoke", or as it's pronounced in America, "karEokee". It would not be difficult to learn a closer to correct pronunciation, but we still all know what the American is talking about when they mispronounce it.
regards,
David Bock

[crypticglobe]

dbock wrote on Fri, 21 May 2004 10:39

ALL of the 670's I've repaired or used to record had a little toggle switch labeled "stereo". It linked the control voltages between channels, making it a stereo limiter. You may disagree with the accuracy of this but it's still a stereo limiter, used EVEN BY MASTERING ENGINEERS AS SUCH. You will of course, have to excuse the recording industry for misusing your new definition of "stereo limiter", but, even if it's a misuse it's common enough to not be called wrong. In fact, if I call any of the rental companies here and ask for a stereo Fairchild, they send me one! Like "karaoke", or as it's pronounced in America, "karEokee". It would not be difficult to learn a closer to correct pronunciation, but we still all know what the American is talking about when they mispronounce it. regards, David Bock

Yep, all the ones I have used had the same thing... though I seem to remember it being labeled "link".  But I could be wrong.   After asking around (to some very knowledgeable vintage gear guys that DON'T have serious attitude problems), it appears that this control is an additional mod.   The "golden unit" at Ocean Way has it, and evidently it was so commonly done that most people assumed it was stock.  I did too.

[Fibes]

Quote:

Configuration and positioning please? As I'm not sure your silly self has realized yet that this is the $64000 cracked plugin question. Two on the top? Top and bottom? Aligned for maximum phase coherency? Matched? XY pair at the snare?

Ah but what about M/S.


Jules eh? Don't you mean Jude?

[malice]

Pricey wrote on Fri, 28 May 2004 18:18

Erik wrote on Fri, 28 May 2004 01:14 I'll toss out one concept.  Instead of using a mult, how about using two microphones.  On a snare.  Imagine that. Ohhhh, so you can use a Fairchild in lat/vert mode to see if things are in phase. That was my first guess, but it seemed too obvious to justify all the dramatics.

a 670 used as a phase meter ...

And I though it was expensive



malice

[mdbeh]

I love the drum sounds on Matthew Sweet's "100% Fun", which was producted by Brendon O'Brien with Nick DiDia engineering.  I'd love to know how they got those... of course, the drummers they were using didn't hurt.

[Fibes]

I'm glad nick is finally getting his due, supah talent, one of the last great in house engineers. Of course he's freelance now...

I think the drum sound on 100% fun was all about late night twinkie binges in the NC mountains. I digress... Yeah, it is all about the drummer...

[RMoore]

<And on a very related note, anyone know the easiest way to tell who engineered a given Beatles recording?>

I am kinda curious about this - does anyone know, is it the same as a previous poster mentioned eg: Geoff Emerick signature - drums squashed through a 660..
?
Thanks,
RM

[RMoore]

2 buss limiting prior to the EMI transistor console:

Maybe 2 x mono Telefunken U73 compressor / limiters?

The counterpart to the V76 / V72 modules they were probably using in the EMI REDD console..?

Or Fairchild 660 on one ch / Altec 436 on the other..



Looking at studio photos showing those 2 in the studio racks.