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[mcsnare]

Just wondering how often you guys will record a digital file to analog 2 track, prior to any subsequent processing and load in. What is the determining factor for when you explore this?  Just wondering.
Dave McNair

[Gold]

I don't have any (working)tape machines that record but I cut and play back an acetate every once in a while. It helps things that were recorded through poor converters. The resulting sound has more to do with the playback cartridge used than going through the drive electronics.

[jazzius]

I'd have to get a very dynamic mix to put it to tape.....most stuff i get in is too compressed to be worth putting to tape.....or isn't mixed dynamic enough.....

[bblackwood]

Hi Dave. Never do it here, for two reasons:
1] my machine is a mastering machine - repro only, and
2] more importantly, hitting tape to the point that it 'colors' the sound is too much for me. I suppose if it please the client and it needs help that bad, it could be an option. I'd much rather rely on processes which, though they do not directly emulate analog tape, can have the same type of pleasing distortions without that step.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with it, I just don't think the trade-offs are worth it. At the mix stage, you can compensate for things - we cannot.

[lucey]

i used to dump everyting to tape that was mixed in the box.  now i do it for anything sterile and dynamic.  it's something you have to try and hear.  

with the HEDD as a converter it's a bit redundant.

now with the Model One ... the harmonics are complimentary to tape effects, so it works out much more musically for me than it used to.



dumped a Digital Performer project to tape and totally revamped the thing ... artist loved it, signing with a great label this week or next, happy, happy.   and that was with the HEDD A/D.  would be better now but oh well ...


so it can work out well

[jazzius]

lucey wrote on Sun, 23 May 2004 09:43

i used to dump everyting to tape that was mixed in the box.  now i do it for anything sterile and dynamic.  it's something you have to try and hear.   with the HEDD as a converter it's a bit redundant.

Brian, do you mean 'cause the Hedd process is so good or that the Hedd converters are crappy?

Quote:

now with the Model One ... the harmonics are complimentary to tape effects, so it works out much more musically for me than it used to.

What harmonics are you talking about?....does the Model one have harmonics generation?

How does the model one converters compare to the Hedd converters (my current analog loop)?

[lowland]

Hi mcsnare,

In light of your previous Sintefex interest it might  be worth pointing out that the FX8000 and 2000 have samples of an MCI 1/4" tape machine at 30, 15 and 7.5ips which offer different levels of 'drive' to tape much like the real thing.

Although I haven't used this in mastering (the HEDD so far has provided all I need of that kind of colour) I auditioned it along with the other distortions provided when I bought my 2000 and mentally flagged it as being interesting.

I'd imagine that sampling wouldn't be too great a challenge for someone with an 8000 and, say, an Ampex 1/2", and a useful addition to the library.

[lucey]

jazzius wrote on Sun, 23 May 2004 04:23

lucey wrote on Sun, 23 May 2004 09:43 i used to dump everyting to tape that was mixed in the box.  now i do it for anything sterile and dynamic.  it's something you have to try and hear.   with the HEDD as a converter it's a bit redundant. Brian, do you mean 'cause the Hedd process is so good or that the Hedd converters are crappy?

The HEDD has a tape-like forwardness even with no DSP.  As such it's probably the best tracking AD out there.   For mastering I was losing low level material and eq, which was especially obvious working from analog mixes.

Using 1/2" and a HEDD is not the best combo ... using  HEDD instead of 'tape as a processor' is a good idea.

Quote:

Quote: now with the Model One ... the harmonics are complimentary to tape effects, so it works out much more musically for me than it used to. What harmonics are you talking about?....does the Model One have harmonics generation? How does the model one converters compare to the Hedd converters (my current analog loop)?

The Models One and Two have 3 DSP for HDCD (plus a number of dithers) yet it's not 'effect' DSP like the HEDD.

As much as I love Dave Hill and Crane Song I have to admit there is another level to be had with the Pacific box.  Given that it was $15,000-$18,000 when new and is loaded with discrete analog, this might be expexcted, but I was still blown away.  

It's 3U and 19" deep with an extertnal PSU ... over 100 lbs. between the two units.   It has the best imaging I've ever heard, and is 99.5% accurate to the source in depth and eq.  There is so little distortion ... it's almost the real thing.  I have not heard Lavry or Prism, yet this is my holy grail.

The harmonics (my word for 'sound') are subtly complimentary to analog tape ... that was my intial point.




Listen to Roxy Music 'Avalon' reissue, or 'Wrecking Ball' ... I was told that Joni Mitchell was remastered from analog using HDCD as well.




The HDCD conversion imparts a clean sheen (so subtle), as the HEDD pushed it forward two or three hairs with a hairy sheen (subtle).  

It's my preference to maintain depth, eq and imaging over forwardness, both because I love the sound of analog mixes and because one of my goals is to make the best possible masters from analog mixes.


... even if they are becoming more rare.

[jazzius]

The HDCD boxes are mysterious.....Euphonix seems to manufacture the Model 2 but there is no info on their website......any idea who sells them?.......prices?

[jazzius]

Aahh...

http://www.euphonix.com/music/products/converters/model_two. htm

[bblackwood]

Yah, both Model 1 & 2 have been out of production for a while now...

[lucey]

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 06:04

Yah, both Model 1 & 2 have been out of production for a while now...

Euphonix made the rare and honorable move of stopping production of the Model Two to ensure service for years to come.

Basically, analog supplies began to dry up, they grabbed everything from everywarehouse on the planet ... and they opted for PR and service over sales.  Hoorah.

[Bob Olhsson]

My experience has been that most of the analog "magic" happens in the multi track. (And it is VERY real.)

I haven't been very impressed by "saturation" processing. To me it combines the shortcomings of both analog and digital technology.