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[lostinthewires]

Hi all, having read as much as possible on the subject of room treatment over the past while I feel like I know less than I did before I started and wish someone would break into my house and sort it out while I sleep.

However, attached is a crude sketch of my living room which I would sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions on . It's all solid concrete walls,doors with 12"x7" glass panels, flat cut-stone fireplace and all the usual living room stuff ; couch, armchairs , t.v., stereo etc.

I'm putting in the bales of rockwool tomorrow in the corners behind the desk and monitors and then see where I go from there.
I had blankets hanging in all the corners and on the fireplace until a few months ago and obviously while doing something for the flutter echoes etc., it made the room quite dead.

I guess I need diffusers and bass traps on the back wall and something on the side walls but I especially don't know what to do with the little corners either side of the fireplace , not to mention the impossibility of symmetry.

It's not a bad sounding room for mixing-at least it's not square, but it doesn't feel great for recording acoustic guitar or vocals for example and sometimes I'm tempted to record in the adjoining kitchen. Anyway ,thanks for reading-looking forward to your advice.

Thanks...

[Ethan Winer]

lostinthewires wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 20:11

I especially don't know what to do with the little corners either side of the fireplace

Small things like that are not nearly as important as the outer corners of the room. Stuff behind the mix position matters even less.

You didn't ask any real questions, and I'm too busy to type a 14-page dissertation on how to treat a room. Luckily for you, I already did that a while ago. So here's my canned reply:

Room treatment is a deep subject, and a complete answer requires far more than will fit into a single reply here. So here's the short version. All rooms need:

* Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. More bass traps on the rear wall behind helps even further. You simply cannot have too much bass trapping. Real bass trapping, that is - thin foam and thin fiberglass don't work to a low enough frequency.

* Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling.

* Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling if the floor is reflective. Diffusion on the rear wall behind you is also useful in larger rooms.

For the complete story see my Acoustics FAQ.

There's a lot of additional non-sales technical information on my company's site - articles, videos, test tones and other downloads - linked under my name below.

--Ethan

[lostinthewires]

Hi Ethan, thanks for your reply.

I'm surprised you don't recognize your own advice in the bales of rockwool as bass traps!. Well granted ,you said bales of fluffy fiberglass in your essay.

I understood your piece on this subject to mean that this approach would treat the ceiling/corner as well as the corner itself.

Maybe you didn't see the diagram of the room in which I said that I was planning to put in two stacked 2x4 bales of rockwool in each corner.

One of the main reasons I was so happy to come across this piece in your acoustic treatment and design piece was that it gave me the option of not having to handle fiberglass as I have an eye condition which wouldn't respond well to it, as well as the fact that it would save so much hassle.

Im only renting this house so I don't want to have to invest too much to kill a few echoes!

If it turns out that the bales will do the corner bass trapping ok then I'm a bit stumped for non-fiberglass mf-hf absorber   options. I came across a guy using hemp but he said it was twice as expensive as fiberglass.

Other than that, as the floor is carpeted do you think I could  get away without treating the ceiling?

There are so many windows in this room I don't know if it's an advantage or a disadvantage ; I know it's better to have none but at least the side one for example is breaking up the parallel wall thing. The back one (behind the mixing position)must give fewer reflections than a blank wall. I don't know what to think about the one in front of the mixing position.

Anyway, thanks again...

[lostinthewires]

Just one more thing re:ceiling treatment- I live in a bungalow so all that's above ceiling(plastered sheetrock I think) is typical fiberglass insulation (and air). Just in case it makes a difference to your advice...

thanks

[Ethan Winer]

lostinthewires wrote on Tue, 22 January 2008 18:53

I'm surprised you don't recognize your own advice in the bales of rockwool as bass traps!. Well granted ,you said bales of fluffy fiberglass in your essay.

I see all and miss nothing.

Quote:

as the floor is carpeted do you think I could  get away without treating the ceiling?

You still need to treat the reflection points between your head and the speakers.

Quote:

There are so many windows in this room I don't know if it's an advantage or a disadvantage

Windows are good for bass because they pass bass more than sheet rock walls. Glass is not as terrible for mids and highs as some people think, unless it's at reflection points. In which case you need absorption anyway.

--Ethan

[lostinthewires]

Thanks again Ethan,

btw what do you think of hemp and fleece? ,

and ,

are you holding the cat down in that photo?

[Ethan Winer]

lostinthewires wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 14:00

what do you think of hemp and fleece?

Hemp good.

Seriously, I've never tested those or seen published data so I have no opinion of those acoustically. Published data is the key.

Quote:

are you holding the cat down in that photo?

Now, he's holding me up.

--Ethan

[lostinthewires]

Ha Ha    

Here's some data on hemp;
 
http://www.babic.com/TEMP/SCHALL_Englisch.pdf  

[lostinthewires]

Hi again Ethan,

two 2ftx4ft bales of rockwool flexi stacked one on top of the other in room corners.

What do you think?

[Ethan Winer]

lostinthewires wrote on Thu, 24 January 2008 15:47

two 2ftx4ft bales of rockwool flexi stacked one on top of the other in room corners. What do you think?

It can only help.

[gullfo]

here's something i did recently to (inexpensively) correct a number of room defects where carpet lined the walls and there was no bass trapping anywhere... stacks of insulation rolls (still in the wrapper) in the corners. optionally a thin curtain over them for aesthetics. wood panels over carpet to add some life back into the space (removing the carpet would destroy the walls...) some porous absorbers to add some reflection controls. maybe this helps.

[lostinthewires]

Thanks Glenn,

you're a gentleman.

[lostinthewires]

hello again Glennn

just wondering, assuming you used two bales of insulation in each corner,  how you got the top one to stay up?

did you tape them to the walls?

thanks again...

[gullfo]

duct tape the stack to hold bales together and picture wire and two hooks (or use the curtain rod standoffs) on the top to just keep it steady. curtains = standard cheap curtain rods + standoffs.