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Author Topic: Huckabee for President (You're an Idiot if You Participate in This Thread)  (Read 54707 times)

studiojimi

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2008, 12:19:04 pm »

so i suppose we should take "in God we trust" off of the money.

Quote:


I think any true believer will recognise that his position is, well belief for the exact reason that he cannot prove it. That equally means that he cannot call any decision made on the basis on those beliefs rational. No true believer should have issues with these simple observations. Such a believer would live his own life according to his beliefs, but take decisions affecting other people based on premises that he can prove and on logic that holds water.



hebrews always says it best
Hebrews 11
By Faith
1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.



part of the "true believer".....i'll use the term "truth believer"
is to spread the good word.....the "truth"  that God loves you and so do I...His will is absolute for and all of His children.

i'm  sure i don't want a non believer in the white house.

i'd love for a leader to feel free enough to proclaim his faith.
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STUDIOJIMI'S PSW SONG FORUM
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when kindred live together in unity!
Psalm 133:1

PRobb

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2008, 12:30:52 pm »

studiojimi wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 12:19


the "truth"  that God loves you and so do I...His will is absolute for and all of His children.

i'm  sure i don't want a non believer in the white house.

i'd love for a leader to feel free enough to proclaim his faith.


2+2=4 is "the truth". I can prove it. Its truth doesn't depend on whether or not I believe it. If I do work based on that truth, I achieve results that function in the real world.  

I want a moral person in the White House. It doesn't matter to me if that morality is based on God or not. There are moral and immoral believers. There are moral and immoral atheists. And looking at the world today, and at human history, I certainly don't see an immutable connection between belief and morality.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke

el duderino

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2008, 12:38:09 pm »

i'd love for a leader to feel free enough to proclaim his lack of faith.

I'm not saying they need to be an atheist, but believing in things that can't be proven makes me think they'd ignore MANY facts. particularly any fact the could even hint at them being wrong about what they believe.

someone already mentioned the bush/iraq example which is exactly what I'm afraid of happening again. well, not exactly afraid...

If you believe in god (whatever god youd like)and try to be a good person I think thats all that is necessary. the more devout the person gets the scarier things become.
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Jessica A. Engle

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2008, 01:24:04 pm »

el duderino wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 11:38

i'd love for a leader to feel free enough to proclaim his lack of faith.

I'm not saying they need to be an atheist, but believing in things that can't be proven makes me think they'd ignore MANY facts. particularly any fact the could even hint at them being wrong about what they believe.

someone already mentioned the bush/iraq example which is exactly what I'm afraid of happening again. well, not exactly afraid...

If you believe in god (whatever god youd like)and try to be a good person I think thats all that is necessary. the more devout the person gets the scarier things become.



Err.... I've got no problem with what you say, except for that last part.  I think you are confusing "devout" with "fanatical".  It is possible to be devout and be very humble, and a good servant of the Lord.  Although this is very difficult, and probably impossible to achieve most of the time.  

Problems come when Christians can't admit that they fall short.  I heard someone once say, "The tricky thing about humility is that once you realize you have it, you no longer have it".  So anyone who bills themself as some great bastion of the faith (Like GW did) is not practicing good spirituality, but is using spirituality as a tool to achieve an external objective.  

For example, I understand Mother Teresa wrote a whole lot of letters to her superiors over many decades while she helped the poor in India, but asked that they be destroyed because she didn't want them to cause people to think more of her and less of Christ.  That is faith that is not self-serving.  It exists to serve others, and share God's love.  Not to gain power or to force anyone to do anything.

Besides you can't make people believe in anything by force.  That's why Christianity is an open invitation, and was never, ever meant to be a mandate.  

Jessica
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studiojimi

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2008, 01:58:12 pm »

FAITH

use it

you can't lose it.

you can abuse it.

cuz it's yours.

it's free!

use it.



don't lose sight of the truth that you don't define God

God defines you.

and you ought to praise Him for it.... a lot and often.
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CAZADOR RECORDING
STUDIOJIMI'S PSW SONG FORUM
MY MYSPACE
How very good and pleasant it is
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Psalm 133:1

mgod

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2008, 02:34:40 pm »

Jessica A. Engle wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 10:24

  I heard someone once say, "The tricky thing about humility is that once you realize you have it, you no longer have it".

Jessica

Now that is brilliant, perceptive and dead-on. Thanks for passing it on.

Jessica A. Engle wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 10:24

Besides you can't make people believe in anything by force.  That's why Christianity is an open invitation, and was never, ever meant to be a mandate.  

Jessica

With respect ma'am, there are many many domestic believers who would argue with that position.

Personally I get a little tired of all this "He" stuff. Psychologists call that projection.

DS
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el duderino

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2008, 02:55:09 pm »

Jessica A. Engle wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 13:24




Err.... I've got no problem with what you say, except for that last part.  I think you are confusing "devout" with "fanatical".  It is possible to be devout and be very humble, and a good servant of the Lord.  Although this is very difficult, and probably impossible to achieve most of the time.  


gotcha. wrong word choice.


Jessica A. Engle wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 13:24


Besides you can't make people believe in anything by force.  That's why Christianity is an open invitation, and was never, ever meant to be a mandate.  



I understand what you're saying but people have and i'm sure will continue to try to force it on others. and while it would seem to not work, one example that comes to mind where it did work (sort of) is Latin America.
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studiojimi

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2008, 04:25:43 pm »

mgod wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 11:34


Personally I get a little tired of all this "He" stuff. Psychologists call that projection.

DS




this whole thread is tired

Mother/Father/Spirit God is sexless

Father...the head honcho

He....is just merely a pro noun most of us accept but not to define as gender

ALLness

the Omnipotent

the Omnipresent

the Omniscient.

were talkin Supreme Intelligence

errorless perfect being

which lives in you and dwells there and is available for the consciousness awareness raising experience.

i highly recommend it

but don't insist on it.

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CAZADOR RECORDING
STUDIOJIMI'S PSW SONG FORUM
MY MYSPACE
How very good and pleasant it is
when kindred live together in unity!
Psalm 133:1

CCC

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2008, 07:23:36 pm »

Personally I can't figure out if certain posters on this thread are trying to be persuasive, comically ironic, or if someone here has been possessed of the spirit of George Michael.  Either way, this discussion is one of the great and troubling discussions of modern times.  To the extent that we can discuss rationally without mindlessly reciting doctrine the better we all will be.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 08:48:26 pm »

New Hampshire: McCain, Romney, Huckabee...

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studiojimi

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2008, 12:24:00 am »

JS wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 16:23

Personally I can't figure out if certain posters on this thread are trying to be persuasive, comically ironic, or if someone here has been possessed of the spirit of George Michael.  Either way, this discussion is one of the great and troubling discussions of modern times.  To the extent that we can discuss rationally without mindlessly reciting doctrine the better we all will be.



you really think we can agree on what is rational?

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PRobb

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2008, 12:31:36 am »

studiojimi wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 00:24




you really think we can agree on what is rational?



The definition of rational is sort of at the core of the discussion, isn't it? Rolling Eyes
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2008, 12:55:27 am »

Did someone say "rations"???  Hmmmm. That's good 'cause I'm hungry.

Oh.  Too many World War II movies.

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bruno putzeys

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2008, 04:30:23 am »

studiojimi wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 06:24

you really think we can agree on what is rational?

How about...

1) using sound logic (i.e. without fallacies of any kind) to build an argument that is internally consistent.
2) using same sound logic to insure relevance to the discussion
3) readiness to act upon the conclusions reached and not to act against them.

There's actually also:
4) readiness to verify the premises (implicit and explicit)
but I wouldn't want to cause people who are squeamish about item 4 to throw out the other three as well (as they usually do).

The point is that anyone in their right mind will accept that drawing the wrong conclusion from the right premises potentially causes evil. So does not following correctly drawn conclusions. For instance:
God exists -> (fallacious reasoning) -> I must take an airplane and fly it into a tower block.
Suppose for a while that the premise is true. It is then logically impossible to get from the premise to the conclusion using correct logic. This should convince believers that it is morally imperative to use solid logic. Clearly, flying an airplane into a building after having first concluded that it is not a correct thing to do would be, apart from immoral, also quite silly.
A secular example would be:
Patient has bacterial infection -> (fallacious reasoning) -> I must treat with distilled water.
Rational behaviour would have been to prescribe antibiotics. Irrational behaviour is morally wrong here because the patient dies while correct reasoning (and subsequent action) would have saved his life. Logic holds equally in a universe with or without God. Anyone endowed with a sense of morality, believer or not, will see that sound logic is morally imperative, with belief only relating to what premises one considers true*.

Given that item 4 relates only to whether one accepts revelation as a source of knowledge or not, I can't imagine how there could be disagreement with the first three items. That should already be enough common ground as far as a definition of "rational" is concerned.

_________________
*note to fellow skeptics: unclosed gap in reasoning left in intentionally
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danickstr

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2008, 06:41:24 am »

Huckabee says the world was made 6000 years ago.  Evidence to the contrary is just a trick by god to fool us.

Believe, minions.  Do not question.
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Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com
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