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Author Topic: Huckabee for President (You're an Idiot if You Participate in This Thread)  (Read 58096 times)

PRobb

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2008, 02:17:54 pm »

studiojimi wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 11:27

Huck may not be the best man for the job but there are certainly worse choices.

My problem with evangelicals is there judgement of others who don't believe as they do ...then again they are also on the receiving end of a lot of that.

Huckabee could be a good man to do a job.

Not sure i'll vote for him but I will keep an open mind.

The other night I watched the DVD of September Dawn....now that scared me to death on Romney whose Dad was my Gov. in Michigan when i grew up there.


My problem with evangelicals in politics is when they don't see the line between their beliefs and the real world. A young earth creationist fails that test.  A political leader has to live in the real world.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2008, 04:44:24 pm »

I don't care if a candidate is a creationist.  I am one myself.  The difference is I don't try to force my religious beliefs on anyone else.  That's where everyone has to draw the line.  I don't want an atheist forcing me to live according to his/her beliefs.  Running our lives and the country should be about fairness for all, help for all and the best quality of life possible.

I don't need to have creationism taught in school.  I'm happy to teach it at home.  I don't need religion to formally be part of pubic schooling.  We can practice that at home.  It's when a religion wants things their way or else it's evil that bugs the crap out of me.  Let people be who they are (within reason -- you know murderers, pedophiles, things the majority can agree on as "bad"). Accept people, benefit from each other and move on.

EDIT: BTW, I'm not a "young earth" person.  Personally I don't care how old or young it is.  Whatever its age it needs to excercise more and lose about 20 pounds.
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studiojimi

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2008, 07:19:09 pm »

PRobb wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 11:17

studiojimi wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 11:27

Huck may not be the best man for the job but there are certainly worse choices.

My problem with evangelicals is there judgement of others who don't believe as they do ...then again they are also on the receiving end of a lot of that.

Huckabee could be a good man to do a job.

Not sure i'll vote for him but I will keep an open mind.

The other night I watched the DVD of September Dawn....now that scared me to death on Romney whose Dad was my Gov. in Michigan when i grew up there.


My problem with evangelicals in politics is when they don't see the line between their beliefs and the real world. A young earth creationist fails that test.  A political leader has to live in the real world.



i have to awaken you

man does not define the real world

God does.

If the young creationist's God is as powerful as the man believes

any of that stuff could be possible

let's get off of that

bottom line

love one another.

period

let's think BIG

imagine the money to be made on "Don't FUCK with HUCK" merchandising
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2008, 08:54:29 pm »

Please --

"Don't Fornicate with Huckabee."

or

"Do Not Have Illicit Sexual Congress with Mr. Michael Huckabee"

or

"Do Not Perform Political Adultery with Huck"
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mgod

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2008, 10:47:07 pm »

studiojimi wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 16:19

i have to awaken you

man does not define the real world

let's think BIG


Man fully defines the real world of politics, which is what I believe was the real world being referred to. Not necessarily the world of moss, or quasars, or love.

Render unto Caesar, y'alls.

DS
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mgod

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2008, 10:58:14 pm »

From another thread, but just as relevant here:

"Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if you will, is pushing them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees in education, applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts University.

Burdett added: "Gravity — which is taught to our children as a law — is founded on great gaps in understanding. The laws predict the mutual force between all bodies of mass, but they cannot explain that force. Isaac Newton himself said, 'I suspect that my theories may all depend upon a force for which philosophers have searched all of nature in vain.' Of course, he is alluding to a higher power."
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CCC

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2008, 11:33:41 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 16:44

I don't care if a candidate is a creationist.  I am one myself.  The difference is I don't try to force my religious beliefs on anyone else.  That's where everyone has to draw the line.  I don't want an atheist forcing me to live according to his/her beliefs.  Running our lives and the country should be about fairness for all, help for all and the best quality of life possible.



With respect, I don't believe atheists force their beliefs on people.  Atheists don't go door to door selling their ideas (although I heard an anecdote about some atheists that did this for a lark recently).  Atheists don't perpetuate junk science in the school system for the purposes of advancing an agenda rooted in mythology and the supernatural.  Atheists don't hold vigils or pass legislation to preserve the earthly body of a brain-dead individual. Atheists don't take to the streets to protest innocuous cartoons, or threaten to kill people who publish that kind of material.  Atheists don't issue fatwas when people criticize their views.  Atheists don't care who gets married to who or what they do with each other when the lights are out, and don't care to legislate these kinds of matters.  Atheists don't think constitutional amendments denying people equal access to the institution of marriage is a great idea.  The people who flew planes into the WTC weren't atheists.  It wasn't atheists taunting and threatening school children on Ardoyne Road.  I don't imagine that many atheists have tried to influence others by blowing themselves and others to bits.

Can the "religious" claim to be equally disinterested in controlling or influencing the lives of others?  With respect, they cannot.  
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mgod

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2008, 11:52:26 pm »

Wellll...

There have been some fairly nasty governments that were avowedly atheist, and were pretty gung-ho in forcing that belief on people.

As far as I can tell, atheism is in itself a form of belief. Now, agnosticism, that's a different story. Or belief, or...

But on the whole, American atheists seem to be a rather benign sort. I was one myself until I realized that it involved a certainty I didn't have.

DS
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CCC

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2008, 12:14:08 am »

mgod wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 23:52

Wellll...

There have been some fairly nasty governments that were avowedly atheist, and were pretty gung-ho on forcing that belief on people.

As far as I can tell, atheism is in itself a form of belief. Now, agnosticism, that's a different story. Or belief, or...

DS


The examples I draw from are modern, and relate to matters that have been in issue since we entered the 21st century.  Show me a country in the world today where atheists are persecuting the religious, or attempting to legislate religion out of existence.  I can show you some where the religious are eradicating one another.  

Western industrialized constitutional democracies, like the ones you and I live in, have guaranteed freedom of religion.  Religion is in no danger whatsoever of being legislated out of existence, so in this day and age its silly for a person to be afraid of being governed by an "unbeliever."  It is not so silly to be frightened of being governed by a "believer" since the most powerful nation on earth has been severely mismanaged by one for some time now - and since around the world today we are seeing precisely how well the religious manage their affairs and how terribly concerned they are for the rights and freedoms of others.

Atheism isn't a form of belief.  In my humble view its a natural state of ignorance.  I am ignorant of a great many things.  I desire education.  However, to date I am unaware of any compelling explanation of how the universe was created, or how life on earth originated.  On the one hand, I see some people gathering evidence, analyzing evidence, and proposing theories and some conclusions.  I see others who propose what may be described as supernatural explanations.  Being neither a scientist nor a theologian I am not equipped to debate the absolute minutia of either perspective.  But one approach seems somewhat reasonable, the other less so.  To the extent that there is no reasonable basis for accepting bald supernatural assertions without a shred of credible evidence, I do not accept those assertions.  This is a lack of belief, not belief.
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studiojimi

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2008, 02:41:23 am »

you won't have to look outside for God

HE hid himself in the best hiding place where no one can take Him from you

and everyone has a piece

as God is no respector of person

He is in your heart whether you choose to see and faithfully accept it or not

now THAT is love.

He loved you so much that He made you in His image likeness

SPIRIT

you are filled with His faculties (faith, love, strength, wisdom, purity, zeal, live, elimination, power, imagination etc) and fall under His laws

and if  you break His laws...they will lovingly break you

hmmm maybe i should run for prez
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bruno putzeys

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2008, 04:17:32 am »

Atheism is a "belief" as much as "not collecting rocks" is a hobby. The atheist position is not "believing there is no god" but "considering it irrational to believe there is a god until there is solid evidence". Try saying out loud in the middle of a bunch of atheists that you believe God doesn't exist, and they'll equally tell you to prove it or shut up. That the nonexistence of any God is impossible to prove is quite well accepted (although people like to forget that the nonexistence of a specific God is dashedly easy to prove if the properties ascribed to this God are not internally consistent).

Of course there are people who "believe there is no God" and who are utterly unable to explain their position, but such people are conversion fodder for the next couple of Jehova's Witnesses that come at the door.

Sure, so-called atheist regimes have done bad things (at least one, Stalinism, spectacularly so) but that was not in the name of atheism but in the name of another set of flawed beliefs that were "religiously" held. As soon as someone tries to enforce facts instead of trying to find them, we're in trouble. Whether those beliefs be divine or secular in nature. That Naziism be "atheist" has been quite firmly debunked on the basis of Mr. H's own remarks, and the special relationship his regime had with the Catholic Church.

I think any true believer will recognise that his position is, well belief for the exact reason that he cannot prove it. That equally means that he cannot call any decision made on the basis on those beliefs rational. No true believer should have issues with these simple observations. Such a believer would live his own life according to his beliefs, but take decisions affecting other people based on premises that he can prove and on logic that holds water.

I would have no problems at all with a president who goes to church, prays and reads the Bible. I have serious issues with any politician who makes political decisions based on beliefs that he cannot prove. Whether or not holding irrational beliefs is problematic is fundamentally related to what it's applied to. What I mean is this: someone who believes the heart is the seat of our emotions should not become a surgeon. Someone who believes the moon is made out of cheese should not be working for NASA. Someone who seriously thinks the penal code was (or should be) decreed by an invisible being should not be running a country.
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maxdimario

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2008, 07:42:05 am »

mgod wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 04:58

From another thread, but just as relevant here:

"Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if you will, is pushing them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees in education, applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts University.

Burdett added: "Gravity — which is taught to our children as a law — is founded on great gaps in understanding. The laws predict the mutual force between all bodies of mass, but they cannot explain that force. Isaac Newton himself said, 'I suspect that my theories may all depend upon a force for which philosophers have searched all of nature in vain.' Of course, he is alluding to a higher power."


including the influences of gravity from the cosmos.

the whole concept of explanation is limited by nature itself


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bruno putzeys

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2008, 07:58:25 am »

The point being, of course, that gravity as a concept is exceedingly good at predicting what will happen next, whereas non-scientific concepts do not make any predictions, and hence are useless for basing one's actions upon.
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PRobb

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 10:41:19 am »

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 04:17


Sure, so-called atheist regimes have done bad things (at least one, Stalinism, spectacularly so) but that was not in the name of atheism but in the name of another set of flawed beliefs that were "religiously" held.

I totally agree. People use Hitler and Stalin as examples of secular horrors. But if we're going to compare the religious v. ecumenical mindset, they count as religions. They had saints who had to be revered, bibles whose truths were illegal to question, and catechisms that had the force of law. The intellectual structure was a whole lot closer to theocracy than ecumenical secularism.


Quote:

I would have no problems at all with a president who goes to church, prays and reads the Bible. I have serious issues with any politician who makes political decisions based on beliefs that he cannot prove.

Bingo. If you want to believe the earth is flat, you have the right. But I'm not going to hire you to plan intercontinental airline routes. If you want to make the decision that belief trumps hard evidence, you absolutely have that right. But the president has to work in hard reality and doesn't have that luxury. Bush is a "believer". He believed that Saddam had WMD and was involved in 9/11 and no amount of evidence was going to shake the belief of someone who puts belief before hard evidence.
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mgod

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Re: Huckabee for President
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 10:52:07 am »

PRobb wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 07:41

Bush is a "believer". He believed that Saddam had WMD and was involved in 9/11 and no amount of evidence was going to shake the belief of someone who puts belief before hard evidence.

He only "believed" that when it worked for his political goals to believe it. Kind of like a death bed conversion.

DS
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