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Author Topic: How many of you master 100% ITB?  (Read 20505 times)

brethes

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2008, 12:21:56 PM »

aivoryuk wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 10:37

... I think I would rather spend it on my monitoring and room rather gear. If I did spend it on the I don't think my master would change all that much as I prob would be using the same freq.

Yes, very good point!

aivoryuk wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 10:37


One thing I do know is that I have lost mastering jobs on the basis that I don't have a outboard/analog chain and maybe not seemed as professional as someone that does have analog/outboard chain.

This only happens with clients with no budget, poor mixes and misinformed ideas about the music business, so no great loss! My best clients come trough recommendations, repeat business or having seen my name on records they like the sound of. They are usually secure enough to understand that if they like what I do, my choice of tools is the least of their concerns...

aivoryuk

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2008, 01:03:52 PM »

brethes wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 17:21

This only happens with clients with no budget, ..


In this particulr case it was also partly due to the pound US dollar exchange rate.
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masterhse

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2008, 04:44:31 PM »

Bruno Putzeys wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 10:51

I just think it highly unlikely that a mix should have sonic problems that are the exact mirror image of an ATR's. That would be technical grounds for running it through one.


I don't disagree that it wouldn't necessarily be an exact inverse of the problem, but is there any tool that is? Most tools are our perceptions and approximations of the "correct" fix, heck, even our ears are approximations. How do you correct for an improper mic or mic pre?

It's all lipstick and rouge. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. That's one of the reasons I'm so pretty Smile
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Tom Volpicelli
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cerberus

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2008, 05:02:22 PM »

lowland wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 05:46

I've been seeing more mixes of late which require little or nothing done to them tonally, though maybe that's partly to do with my own development as an ME.

yes. brad asked me about this on the forum about a year ago.  his eqs are very special. mine are not.
but there could be other ways to get the "same" work done. i.e. make the client happy.

i believe that mastering eq was developed out of a need to compensate for the riaa
curve.  it would be impossible to cut vinyl without employing eq. that is not
the case for a fully digital production.  as time domain processes do
effect frequency balance and vise versa. there are ways to not
use any filters that roll off in the audio passband.

i try -never- to discuss frequency numbers with the client.  it is always about
an instrument and how it sits in the mix. so we keep the discussion framed
around events in time and space. when numbers like "1khz" are raised,
i ask "which instrument do you mean?"   if they say "all instruments", it
could mean a problem with the mix;  in that case then maybe
i do need to eq...
brethes wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 12:21

This only happens with clients with no budget, poor mixes and misinformed ideas about the music business, so no great loss! My best clients come trough recommendations, repeat business or having seen my name on records they like the sound of. They are usually secure enough to understand that if they like what I do, my choice of tools is the least of their concerns...
yea to that.

jeff dinces

Oldfart

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2008, 05:48:33 PM »

All ITB here.

Even if I came into more money, a new room and monitoring change would be the first items on my lists.

The versitality and ease of ITB as me and my clients pretty happy.

As for the sound .....

I'm sure that an all analog chain does sound better. When I see IPODS and computer speakers becoming the listening reference standards, I seriously question if it all makes a difference?

Oldfart
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Denis Paquette

compasspnt

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2008, 06:19:26 PM »

Oldfart wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 17:48

When I see IPODS and computer speakers becoming the listening reference standards, I seriously question if it all makes a difference?




That means it's even more important to get it right.
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Dave Davis

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2008, 06:35:55 PM »

Coming from an all-analog-all-the-time world, I'm less sure analog sounds better.  Good analog gear sounds great, but then so does great digital.

As far as ITB goes, recall matters to me, as do quick turnarounds, so I love it when I can work entirely ITB!  Since coming to Sound Images, where ironically I have more OTB options than ever, I've managed to get most jobs done essentially "ITB" and have never felt I was sacrificing sound quality in any way.  

The caveat here: I use MH +DSP hardware with some very "special" tools, and "roll my own" plugs for stuff I can't buy, running in soundBlade.  I have a PT/TDM rig that I use daily for sound design, VO and commercial production, but TDM itself, even in HD, is more of an obstacle to great digital than an enabler, so it's rarely if ever used for mastering.  If I were mastering in PT, I don't think I would be as confident about ITB sound quality, since it's becoming such a standard on the production side, it's worth noting in this conversation.

-d-
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Sonovo

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2008, 06:39:22 PM »

98% outboard (analogue & digital), except for the occasional compilation where things only need sequencing and some leveling.

I find working this way is both faster and (for me at least) lets me get results quicker than if I were working strictly ITB.

Obviously, this won't apply to everyone.

Cheers,
Thor

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Oldfart

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2008, 08:14:07 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 18:19

Oldfart wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 17:48

When I see IPODS and computer speakers becoming the listening reference standards, I seriously question if it all makes a difference?




That means it's even more important to get it right.




Really? Strange, I been finding the exact opposite to be true ! The better the speaker the more the "problems" stick out. The lesser the speaker, the more forgiving they are.

There is lots of music I can't stand listening to, thrue my reference monitoring, but is quite acceptable thru s***boxes.

Oldfart
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Denis Paquette

Andrew Hamilton

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2008, 08:58:06 AM »

Oldfart wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 20:14


Really? Strange, I been finding the exact opposite to be true ! The better the speaker the more the "problems" stick out. The lesser the speaker, the more forgiving they are.



To some degree, lesser speakers are more forgiving (bass management is a moot point when the roll-off is well above the program low end!) but in other ways, perhaps more so in terms of depth of field (dynamic range and the tonal subtleties of quiet passages) as well as transient response (handling of peaks), they will be weaker links than in the case of higher end speakers.  (And when I say speakers, of course, I mean room/speakers/amp/preamp/DAC/cabling..Smile)  

Glenn M. used to say that mastering was the link between good studio sound and audiophile or high end audio consumers' systems.  Why earbuds are so forgiving must be that so little of what's really there is getting through.  Because I suspect that when you play a low bit rate file through Duntech Sovereigns powered by  Cello monoblocks, with just a Daven pot for monitor level attenuation, you're gonna hear a lot more nail on the proverbial black board mixed in with the thinner musical sheen that was extruded (shredded?) by the codec.  Computer "whiz, bang" sounds that are part of the OS's alerts sound generally bad when monitored on studio systems, though they sound more appropriate from the built-in PC speaker, so you might have something there, O.


_andrew

   
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2008, 09:24:35 AM »

It's important to get it right because the folks making decisions about the future of the CD and of the artist can't be counted on to base their decisions on any particular speakers. Peoples' careers often hinge on getting it right and making a great first impression.

The right settings on a plug in beat the wrong settings on hardware every time.

bblackwood

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2008, 09:41:27 AM »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Fri, 04 January 2008 08:24

It's important to get it right because the folks making decisions about the future of the CD and of the artist can't be counted on to base their decisions on any particular speakers. Peoples' careers often hinge on getting it right and making a great first impression.

The right settings on a plug in beat the wrong settings on hardware every time.

It's even more important to get it right because most artists are independent and need their art to sound as good as it can across a variety of playback systems. While label (and potential label) stuff might have to pass muster with the folks mentioned in Bob's post, our focus should always remain on helping the artist achieve their goals. In some cases, that's getting radio play and insuring the promo people at the label are excited about it, but other times it's about making it sound good everywhere it's played. Those two goals are not mutually exclusive, but I focus on translation and making stuff sound good.
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Brad Blackwood
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aivoryuk

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2008, 01:18:29 PM »

Dave Davis wrote on Thu, 03 January 2008 23:35

Coming from an all-analog-all-the-time world, I'm less sure analog sounds better.  Good analog gear sounds great, but then so does great digital.

As far as ITB goes, recall matters to me, as do quick turnarounds, so I love it when I can work entirely ITB!  Since coming to Sound Images, where ironically I have more OTB options than ever, I've managed to get most jobs done essentially "ITB" and have never felt I was sacrificing sound quality in any way.  




I think that these are very interesting points. Although I don't have any analog gear I have no doubt that good analog gear really does sound great. I also think that well implemented digital can sound great. They are just different and one may work better than the other depending on the source material and what is trying to be acheived.

I find it quite interesting when i read that a lot of people use ITB more for its quickness and possibly not for its sound quality. If you have something that could potentially sound better then why not use it, or is it more that you're satisfing your clients by not presenting them with a larger bill for taking longer.

more thoughts would be appreciated
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mastermind

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2008, 02:58:21 PM »

I agree there is some pretty awesome digital processing around these days... I've tried to master 100% ITB, and most of the time I can't get the "sound that's in my head".

With the analog stuff (in conjunction with both OTB and ITB digital) it's easy for some reason... don't know why.

If I could get by without the analog stuff, I'd post it for sale and go buy a helicopter or something....

t

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trevor sadler
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cerberus

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Re: How many of you master 100% ITB?
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2008, 06:10:24 PM »

oh, when the computer crashes, i am not in control.
otherwise, mostly yes.

jeff dinces
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