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[Brian Kehew]

groundhog day wrote on Thu, 20 December 2007 09:52

You guys have a couple of very cool mixing jobs that you've mentioned here  . How often do they come up for you ? If I were mixing " 10 -30 songs " every day , after awhile the only thing that would keep my interest would probably be the checks !

At the moment, I'm slightly overworked. I had about three+ weeks off a month ago, and now I will be working as much as I want for the next few months. I usually work MORE than I ought to for those lean times that do happen.

(I also do other things besides studio work - books/tours/etc, and this is CRITICAL in having a life as well as making "a living").

If you worked on REALLY good music you might enjoy it as it goes. I'd prefer to hear 10-30 new things a day and be creatively involved than 1 thing for 2 days! I am very lucky to mix reissue projects for Warner Bros, very! These are records that have stood the test of time usually; good music and often unheard things from the label's biggest artists. So it's not junk (sometimes is). I got the job mainly because I was (a) very vocal that I hated how computers made people sound and work [this lost me a lot of work in the real world, still does] (b) worked very quickly with good results (c) charged a very reasonable rate (d) have fun with it as much as possible. I think most commercial studios in the country make about what I make in a day. I certainly do not make what other people in L.A. charge (I charge less and work more).

I love older music; how it was recorded then, how it was written them, how it was performed then. So when I work producing modern records for artists, I TRY TRY TRY to get them to see the qualities I miss in modern work.

[Bill Mueller]

cerberus wrote on Thu, 20 December 2007 19:30

question for bill:

Jeff,

Those are a lot of questions! I will try to answer some of them.

Quote:

it was said that the who was the loudest band on earth. but i recall talk talk being louder, much. painfully so. their drummer was killer!  but my experience sucked.

The Who were incredibly loud ON STAGE, because for a long time they used an entire PA for side fills. I built most of those speakers (fiberglass covered cabinets) for Heil Sound in the early 70's. They were based on JBL 4560 cabinets and mid throw 2" hf horns. It was DANGEROUS to be in the beam of those bad boys and IMO why Pete is as deaf as he is. However he blames studio headphones, which if they were louder than those side fills, HOLY CRAP!

Quote:

how do you guys set your levels?

I have only been a FOH guy for a few bands and never on big stages. However I was a monitor guy for a while on big tours. I set the levels as loud as I could get the system to go without feedback. I think you will find many FOH guys with the same attitude.

Quote:

have any f.o.h, mixers needed to retire early due to self-inflicted hearing loss?

I read in MIX that the guy who took my job (guitar and drum roadie) when I left ZZTOP has tinnitus so bad that he sleeps and works all day with a noise generator to keep himself sane. I really dodged that bullet!

Quote:

or is it a number dictated from above?

NO.

Quote:

in that case have any f.o.h. mixers sued their employers and won?

NO. As a matter of fact, and this is important in a number of areas, Sound Engineers are considered professionals by the government. That means that what we do to ourselves in the performance of our jobs is our own problem. We are in control of our sessions and the volume knob. In fact, if we hurt someone else in the performance of our job, like make someone deaf, we, not our employer may be liable.

Quote:

do the o.s.h.a. (u.s. safety and health) standards for workers apply to the live music industry?

YES. But I have never seen it enforced. I would be interested if anyone else has seen any OSHO laws enforce d in clubs or concert venues.

Quote:

i do not trust any venue i attend. i always bring ear-plugs. i hardly am enthused about attending shows these days. ringing in the ears hours after the gig means permanent damage, i can't afford it. ironic that i master so much louder than most, and i take pleasure in it. but i monitor at reasonable levels... enough always can be enough. we know human nature, and that going to eleven is rockin'. but does it need to hurt? jeff dinces

I try to monitor as low as possible, but sometimes, (like getting drum sounds for Billy Idol) soft just won't work. In those cases, you just have to compensate by over protecting your ears at other times.

Be careful.

Best Regards,

Bill

[cerberus]

wow, thanks bill for all that err.. stimulating information!

Bill Mueller wrote on Fri, 21 December 2007 20:46

The Who were incredibly loud ON STAGE, because for a long time they used an entire PA for side fills. I built most of those speakers (fiberglass covered cabinets) for Heil Sound in the early 70's. They were based on JBL 4560 cabinets and mid throw 2" hf horns. It was DANGEROUS to be in the beam of those bad boys

i did not think the who were "too loud" in madison square garden; and considering the
acoustics of that room,  i think it sounded great too. don't think i've ever heard
any music fan complain about a heil sound system.

Quote:

I try to monitor as low as possible, but sometimes, (like getting drum sounds for Billy Idol) soft just won't work. In those cases, you just have to compensate by over protecting your ears at other times.

i didn't catch him live, but i had always assumed that there was heavy synthetic (triggered?)
re-enforcement going on there?  imo, it's awesome groovesmanship. idol's solo
records have drums bigger than england. say what you will about
the "period" 'verb(s), i love the billy idol drum sound.

CWHumphrey wrote on Thu, 20 December 2007 19:53

I take it you didn't see Rock N' Roll High School.  The Who came in 2nd. Ha ha! Cheers,

aha!  i've not seen it for twenty years.  might be the greatest rock-era
film ever, or one of the best all-time films. a must see.

jeff dinces

[RSettee]

Someone had mentioned that Frank Zappa considers something done when he's sick of working on it. I just probably finished (thereabouts) two albums, and I am sick of overdubbing and tracking, and mastered two songs that a label is gonna release a 45 rpm 7" next year. Most are 18 tracks or above, some have 40-50 tracks.

I always have a tendency to mix while i'm tracking, so that I have a good mix to record around. There's still things that I want to do, but the batteries are drained....they need recharging, both creatively and technically. The only thing is that I go insane when i'm not recording. It's always a battle for me to top what I just did, and I always have to record just to make sure that i'm still in top form, not losing the "muse". Sort of a love/ hate thing. Every time that I get free time off, i'm glad, but then the restlessness sets in. It reminds me of the Zep "Stairway To Heaven" book--Bonzo would pine for some rest and relaxation, but when he finally got it, he'd be bored....and would go nuts. And then you had another TV flying out the window or a hotel room getting trashed.  

[Don Ciccio]

cerberus wrote on Sat, 22 December 2007 00:26

wow, thanks bill for all that err.. stimulating information! Bill Mueller wrote on Fri, 21 December 2007 20:46 The Who were incredibly loud ON STAGE, because for a long time they used an entire PA for side fills. I built most of those speakers (fiberglass covered cabinets) for Heil Sound in the early 70's. They were based on JBL 4560 cabinets and mid throw 2" hf horns. It was DANGEROUS to be in the beam of those bad boys i did not think the who were "too loud" in madison square garden; and considering the acoustics of that room,  i think it sounded great too. don't think i've ever heard any music fan complain about a heil sound system. Quote: I try to monitor as low as possible, but sometimes, (like getting drum sounds for Billy Idol) soft just won't work. In those cases, you just have to compensate by over protecting your ears at other times. i didn't catch him live, but i had always assumed that there was heavy synthetic (triggered?) re-enforcement going on there?  imo, it's awesome groovesmanship. idol's solo records have drums bigger than england. say what you will about the "period" 'verb(s), i love the billy idol drum sound. CWHumphrey wrote on Thu, 20 December 2007 19:53 I take it you didn't see Rock N' Roll High School.  The Who came in 2nd. Ha ha! Cheers, aha!  i've not seen it for twenty years.  might be the greatest rock-era film ever, or one of the best all-time films. a must see. jeff dinces

i like kiss meets the phantom of the park it's one of my guilty pleasure movies when i just want cheese....LOL

Frank

[Matt Winegar]

I avoid listening to things I've worked on like the plague. I just get this instant sick feeling of "I should have done this or that".
Only after many years can I actually enjoy listening to something I recorded.
The weird thing is as an artist recording my own music, I'm much less precious about the whole process. I don't really obsess over technical details. I'm more likely to throw up whatever mics are already plugged in and get on with recording some music. I'm almost always pleased with the results of these casual sessions and have no problems or hangups listening to them anywhere.

The thing I miss about mixing on a console without automation was when it was not working, I would push down the faders and start over. It would almost always have a positive result. It seems with modern ITB computer mixing so many little automation tweaks prevent me from breaking the mix down to nothing and starting from a new balance. From my experience, the results of an inspired (performed) mix are almost always unbeatable.

Interesting thread.

[CWHumphrey]

Don Ciccio wrote on Sat, 22 December 2007 01:06

i like kiss meets the phantom of the park it's one of my guilty pleasure movies when i just want cheese....LOL Frank

Clearly, that was the downfall of the original Kiss...until 20 years later.  Man, the TV Movie was bad.

Cheers,

[Brian Kehew]

Matt Winegar wrote on Sat, 22 December 2007 15:41

Interesting thread.

Yes, I like this process-philosophy stuff a lot.

[RSettee]

CWHumphrey wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 00:28

Don Ciccio wrote on Sat, 22 December 2007 01:06 i like kiss meets the phantom of the park it's one of my guilty pleasure movies when i just want cheese....LOL Frank Clearly, that was the downfall of the original Kiss...until 20 years later.  Man, the TV Movie was bad. Cheers,

Hey, does anyone know where I can get an authentic Paul Stanley chest wig?