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Author Topic: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies  (Read 15524 times)

sstillwell

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2004, 03:26:40 PM »

First things first...

1/8th versus 1/4...my bad, you're right.  Stupid mistake. Embarassed

Re: waiting for things to get invented...you're also totally correct, but they're STILL a good investment even if you already have the 81s.

Re: pads and switches...nope, not a single one.  You are giving up SOMETHING for the price.

Vertigo...

Check out 8th Street Music.  They have single 603S, single units with shock mount, two-packs with cables, four-packs with cables, and stereo pairs in a padded case with shock mounts (that's what I bought).  I had zero problems with them, and I understand that they're quite reputable.

Scott
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McAllister

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2004, 05:09:28 PM »

Dynamics: 57, Byetone (russian)
LDC: AT 4050 & 4033
Ribbon: Oktava ML19

I use the Oktava on OH, guitar cabs, horns - whatever. Sounds great. Built like a tank.

I have a great Gefell LDC that is perfect for my voice, but oddly enough I have never ever tried it (!!) on anything else.

I'd like to get:
Dynamic: SM7, RE20, 441, 421
SDC: a matched pair of something - this is the big hole in my mic closet.

M
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oudplayer

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2004, 12:23:11 AM »

Funny that a couple of you think of the Sennheiser e604s as one-trick ponies... they're some of my most frequently used mics! I think they sound great on a whole host of percussion instruments (shakers, darbukkas, frame drums), on horns, and even on stringed instruments when paired with a small-diaphragm condensor. They're kind of my "new" 57. If you can find the e504s, the predecessor, they have a darker sound quality that can be useful in different situations... I'd think of those more as one-trick ponies.
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Vertigo

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2004, 07:51:36 PM »

Thanks for the tip on 8th street music! That's EXACTLY what I was looking for - I just ordered the stereo pair.

Has anyone here tried the AKG C430's? Only $199 for two and a friend of mine highly recommended them as cheap overheads. I need an extra set of SDC's for mic'ing a double high-hat setup and I was wondering if anyone has tried the little C430's. I was wondering if they'd compliment my setup or if the MXL 603's would be better.

-Lance
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Family Hoof

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2004, 08:03:05 PM »

Vertigo wrote on Sun, 02 May 2004 19:51

Has anyone here tried the AKG C430's? Only $199 for two and a friend of mine highly recommended them as cheap overheads. I need an extra set of SDC's for mic'ing a double high-hat setup and I was wondering if anyone has tried the little C430's. I was wondering if they'd compliment my setup or if the MXL 603's would be better.


I'm wondering the same thing. I had been eyeballing both of these mics as an alternative to my Rode NT5s but have heard neither. When I saw the data sheet for the c430s, I was immediate deterred by the 5dB boost from 5 - 10kHz. I can only imagine this rendering them extremely harsh and unusable.
I've only heard great things about the MXL603s. Indeed, Harvey owns a whole bunch and says they sound almost exactly like Oktava MC012s. However, I have to pick and choose where I spend my nonexistent budget so alas I still don't own a pair.  
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carne_de_res

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2004, 03:18:23 PM »

i am _very_ intrigued by Harvey's description of the
Behringher ECM8000 mic.they're so inexpensive
i could buy them without even trying them!

my workhorses:

dynamic: 421 for bass amp,bass drum,toms,electric guitars,
harsh rock vocals,even as _overheads_!!!

ribbon: beyer m160.well...it's the only ribbon mic
i own but i use it a lot:electric guitar,cello,mono
overhead,some vocals.

LDC:shure ksm 32.works great on just about anything.





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covert

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2004, 07:13:18 AM »

Quote:


I've only heard great things about the MXL603s. Indeed, Harvey owns a whole bunch and says they sound almost exactly like Oktava MC012s. However, I have to pick and choose where I spend my nonexistent budget so alas I still don't own a pair.  



The 603s as overheads work great.  Last project drums were done with these as overheads, a kick mic, and a snare mic.  Even the dumb guitar player complimented me on the drum sounds.
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Phillip Graham

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Re: Microphones: (Live) Workhorses
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2004, 07:18:13 PM »

Hey All,

Over time I have learned a lot more about the mics out there from the studio guys.  Over in the live world many of the good ribbons, etc. are too fragile to use regularly unless you are touring every night with the same people.

For all of those who like the SM57 for various things, I strongly recommend trying the Beta 57a instead.  If I had to mix an entire stage of Rock n Roll using one microphone on all instruments/vocal, this would probably be it.  It also holds up to being whacked by the drummer much more than a 57.

The SM81 has proven a reliable live pencil condensor microphone over the years.

The KSM series mics are durable enough to use live all the time, too.

Two other budget mics I like are the superlux ECM999.  This is their omni pencil condensor.  A better version of the Behringer 8000 for about 2x the price.

CAD (cadmics.com) also makes a rockin' vocal condensor called the C195 for about 75 bucks.  It's very similar in tone to the Neumann KMS105 (Neumann's live vocal mic).  It's also useable on guitars and amps where some extra "air" is nice.
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Phillip Graham

josh

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Re: Microphones: (Live) Workhorses
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2004, 09:12:51 PM »

gtphill wrote on Fri, 07 May 2004 00:18


Two other budget mics I like are the superlux ECM999.  This is their omni pencil condensor.  A better version of the Behringer 8000 for about 2x the price.




FWIW I think this may be exactly the same mic as the Behringer with a different color paint and a different name silkscreened on it.  The frequency response plot looks worse than the Behringer.

I just recorded some drums today with my ECM8000's earlier today.  It's not that "they're great for the money", but "they're very useful, versatile, and good-sounding microphones".  Period.

There may very well be better omni mics out there, but there's nothing wrong with the ECM's other than perhaps the stigma of the Behringer name.

hargerst

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Re: Microphones: (Live) Workhorses
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2004, 11:30:11 PM »

I think I used some 70% denatured alchohol, but the Behringer name wipes right off the mics (which surprised me) when I went to clean them. Shocked
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josh

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Re: Microphones: (Live) Workhorses
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2004, 09:49:17 AM »

hargerst wrote on Fri, 07 May 2004 04:30

I think I used some 70% denatured alchohol, but the Behringer name wipes right off the mics (which surprised me) when I went to clean them. Shocked


That's a good tip.  Acetone works well too.  Very Happy

Maybe I'll try that.

Last night I also laid down some vocal tracks with one of my grille-modded Oktava MK-219's.  Another great workhorse mic.  Tremendous on snare drum.  Gotta finish the mods on the other one so I can try it on kick.

Phillip Graham

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Re: Microphones: (Live) Workhorses
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2004, 11:21:02 AM »

josh wrote on Thu, 06 May 2004 21:12

gtphill wrote on Fri, 07 May 2004 00:18


Two other budget mics I like are the superlux ECM999.  This is their omni pencil condensor.  A better version of the Behringer 8000 for about 2x the price.




FWIW I think this may be exactly the same mic as the Behringer with a different color paint and a different name silkscreened on it.  The frequency response plot looks worse than the Behringer.

I just recorded some drums today with my ECM8000's earlier today.  It's not that "they're great for the money", but "they're very useful, versatile, and good-sounding microphones".  Period.

There may very well be better omni mics out there, but there's nothing wrong with the ECM's other than perhaps the stigma of the Behringer name.


The body of the behringer is similar to the ECM999, but the electronics, and frequency response (measured with TEF against a B&K) is better for the superlux.  Also the mic to mic tolerance is better for the superlux than the behringer, based on measuring multiple samples.  Behringer "specifications" have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Many of the omnis, Behringer, superlux, and earthworks included, use variants of the panasonic electret capsule.  Just that some suppliers (namely earthworks) are much more careful of what capsules they accept.  The front end electronics also differ.

I use the ECM to do FFT based acoustics analysis, and recordings made from it are incidental.  The approximately 1dB narrower window of it's frequency response over the Behringer makes it worth 2x the (very modest) price.
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sstillwell

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2004, 02:33:58 PM »

covert wrote on Wed, 05 May 2004 06:13

Quote:


I've only heard great things about the MXL603s. Indeed, Harvey owns a whole bunch and says they sound almost exactly like Oktava MC012s. However, I have to pick and choose where I spend my nonexistent budget so alas I still don't own a pair.  



The 603s as overheads work great.  Last project drums were done with these as overheads, a kick mic, and a snare mic.  Even the dumb guitar player complimented me on the drum sounds.


Kick mic???  How did you mic the kick?  I've heard that you have to be real careful when using them for vocals so that you don't bottom out the diaphragm from p-pops and such...wouldn't you have the same problem with the air moving on a kick?

I also think that you'd have trouble with isolating individual drums due to the wide pattern of the mic.

All that being said...good grief, I've GOT to try this!

THAT is thinking outside the box.

Scott
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bgavin (Bruce Gavin)

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2004, 02:39:51 PM »

I'm finding happiness in dynamics with Audio Technica ATM types.  The ATM25 are huge and fat and do multiple duty for kick, toms, bass cabs, and even provide a huge bassy voice.

ATM23HE appear to be a well kept secret.  I just acquired a pair of them, but them seem to be more "with it" than my Audix D4.  The ATM23HE will do multiple duty on snare and guitar cabs.

I have an Audix D4 for an alternate flavor on drums, and bass cabs.

For live vocals, I tried replacing my pair of SM58 through Rane MLM preamps (burr-brown INA163).  Even with JBL mains, the SM58 were kinda muffled.  I put up my ancient pair of RS #33-1080 electret SDC and got a huge boost in clarity.  The vocal thing just comes alive with these old dawgs.
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Duardo

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Re: Microphones: Workhorses vs. One-trick Ponies
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2004, 07:20:46 PM »

My workhorse microphones are my pair of Royer R121's and my pair of Earthworks SRO's.  The Royers, especially, I would feel fairly comfortable tracking just about anything with, with the possible exception of close-miking drums.  Between the two pair I have about anything I could ever want in terms of natural-sounding recording capabilities.

As for one-trick poines, I'd put most large-diaphragm condensers into that category.   Most of them seem to have a fairly distinct character to them that works great on some sources and not so well on others.  There are a few of the more neutral-sounding ones, like perhaps Audio Technica's 4050 or AKG's C414B/ULS, that I've worked with that I'd consider to be workhorses, but I don't own those particular microphones.  Large-diaphragm condensers I find myself using on vocals and just about nothing else these days, although I'd be perfectly comfortable laying down a vocal track with an R121 and a good EQ.

At this point I'd consider my SM57's to fall more on the one-trick-pony side of things than I would the workhorse side, since pretty much all I use them for is close-miking drums.  I haven't felt the desire to put one on a guitar amp since I picked up my Royers.  And I do have a D112 and an ATM25 I use on kick and floor toms that I'd put on the one-trick-pony list as well.

-Duardo
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