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Author Topic: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists  (Read 14351 times)

rphilbeck

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 10:57:40 am »

wwittman wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 00:54




now people who are anti-abortion but pro death penalty... THOSE people are morons.




Why do you think they are morons?
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Fibes

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 11:18:30 am »

This usually comes up one time a year around here.


I'm a pescatarian, occasionally wear leather shoes and think PETA is a horrible thing (except for their topless mermaid stunts).

That's not the point.

WW made a good point about the difference between use and exploitation.

My personal beliefs are more of the "small footprint" and organic philosophy than anything. I eat fish but unless I'm eating out on a special occasion it is fish that i caught and killed myself. The fish didn't get dragged around on a long line for hours and no porpoises or turtles were trapped in any nets to drown.

Bycatch and byproducts are the most dangerous impacts from the food and fish industries.

http://www.themeatrix.com

I used to play in a big "chicken town" and noticed that almost every restaurant in town didn't serve chicken. The locals knew what went into those hormone bags (chickens) and everything else in the process.


So, i don't care what y'all eat; i do care what i see on a bluebloods back at the opera however.

So call me a hypocrite because i think (just like meat eating indians) that animals deserve respect in all aspects of their use.

In china they skin dogs alive for the collars on american parkas.

Hrm.

Skinned alive.

Anal electrocution sounds like a day at the park.



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Fibes
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PRobb

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2007, 12:28:25 pm »

I'm not sure of the moral distinction between leather from a farm raised cow and fur from a farm raised mink.
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Andy Peters

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2007, 01:55:46 pm »

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 08:57

wwittman wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 00:54



now people who are anti-abortion but pro death penalty... THOSE people are morons.


Why do you think they are morons?


Because they claim that abortion is murder, yet they condone (and in a lot of cases, rabidly support) the death penalty, which has the same result.

Then there's the guy who murdered that doctor who performed abortions. Fry that fucker.

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rphilbeck

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2007, 03:55:40 pm »

Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 13:55

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 08:57

wwittman wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 00:54



now people who are anti-abortion but pro death penalty... THOSE people are morons.


Why do you think they are morons?


Because they claim that abortion is murder, yet they condone (and in a lot of cases, rabidly support) the death penalty, which has the same result.




One is a convicted murderer, and the other is an unborn child guilty of nothing.

What can I say about a person who is against the death penalty, but pro-abortion?  Doesn't this argument work both ways?


Great post Fibes!
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CCC

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 07:54:04 pm »

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 15:55


One is a convicted murderer, and the other is an unborn child guilty of nothing.

What can I say about a person who is against the death penalty, but pro-abortion?  Doesn't this argument work both ways?



I'm not wading into this debate because of my strong feelings, or to grind an axe.  I would say merely that the reasoning above hinges on equating an embryo or fetus with a person, which is not an assumption that everyone shares.  The ascertainment of the moment that a group of cells engages the term "person" isn't a solvable problem.

Also,convicted murderers aren't sentenced to live inside another person for 9 months.  So murderers aren't kept alive inside another living person who perhaps isn't terribly keen on the idea.

As far as capital punishment goes, I like the death penalty paradox, personally.  Assume the penalty for premeditated homicide is death.  The penalty is given by the state, by virtue of the power we grant the state.  If the state is wrong and executes an innocent person on our behalf the state has committed a murder for which the penalty is death.  So what happens then?  Is it the end of the state, or should we all be put to death because the state, which is us, has committed a murder?  ....and we have convicted people who were not guilty, haven't we?

Just some thoughts.
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rphilbeck

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2007, 10:54:16 pm »

JS wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 19:54

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 15:55


One is a convicted murderer, and the other is an unborn child guilty of nothing.

What can I say about a person who is against the death penalty, but pro-abortion?  Doesn't this argument work both ways?


 I would say merely that the reasoning above hinges on equating an embryo or fetus with a person, which is not an assumption that everyone shares.  The ascertainment of the moment that a group of cells engages the term "person" isn't a solvable problem.


Well, if there is a God, and he questioned my feelings on the subject I would prefer to err on the side of caution.  Oh, and then there is my conscience.  



Quote:

Also,convicted murderers aren't sentenced to live inside another person for 9 months.  So murderers aren't kept alive inside another living person who perhaps isn't terribly keen on the idea.



Is that supposed to be logic?  If you feel about abortion as I do than you are hardly concerned with the brief 9 month inconvenience she may have Vs. the unborn child's right to life.    Use birth control if it's such an inconvenience.  How selfish.  

Furthermore, my point was how ridiculous it is to compare an unborn child to a convicted murderer.
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Daniel Farris

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2007, 11:57:29 pm »

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 19:54

Furthermore, my point was how ridiculous it is to compare an unborn child to a convicted murderer.



But there is research that suggests a connection between an unwanted child and a convicted murderer.

DF
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J.J. Blair

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2007, 09:15:22 am »

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 12:55

Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 13:55

RPhilbeck wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 08:57

wwittman wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 00:54



now people who are anti-abortion but pro death penalty... THOSE people are morons.


Why do you think they are morons?


Because they claim that abortion is murder, yet they condone (and in a lot of cases, rabidly support) the death penalty, which has the same result.




One is a convicted murderer, and the other is an unborn child guilty of nothing.

What can I say about a person who is against the death penalty, but pro-abortion?  Doesn't this argument work both ways?


Great post Fibes!


First, I have to call out a typical pro-life straw man: Calling pro-choice "pro-abortion."  

Also, your argument suggests that all life is sacred, unless you are allegedly a murderer?  

We have innumerable examples of executed felons being exonerated posthumously.  You would think that on the basis of common sense, we would not use the death penalty because of our track record.  Besides, the average cost of putting somebody to death is $24 million.  It's probably cheaper to let them rot in prison, which is probably a worse fate, and is at least undoable if you wrongly convicted them!

BTW, I wonder who Jesus would execute.  

Besides, many scholars will tell you that "an eye for an eye" means that if you take an eye, you must give one back - not that if you took mine, I get to take yours.  The first depiction sounds much more like something Jesus would have taught.  You know ... "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."  Not, "forgive us as we commit further sins in the name of vengeance."

"Christians" crack me up.  Being a recovering "born again", I can tell you first hand that the majority of them spend so much time trying to impose some morality, into which they've been indoctrinated, on everybody else, rather than trying to emulate Christ.  I've seldom encountered a more judgmental, self righteous, myopic, hypocritical bunch of folks.  
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Fibes

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2007, 10:01:04 am »

Back to the topic.

Christians don't taste good either.

I prefer the flavor of USDA farm raised Mormons.

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ScotcH

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2007, 10:57:43 am »

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 13 December 2007 09:15

  Besides, the average cost of putting somebody to death is $24 million.  It's probably cheaper to let them rot in prison, which is probably a worse fate, and is at least undoable if you wrongly convicted them!



Can you explain this JJ?  Seems like an awfully large number for a bit of poison .... (I'm assuming there are "hidden" costs, but I have no idea what could be?)
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el duderino

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2007, 12:11:02 pm »

i have no clue what the actual cost of the execution is but death row inmates are on death row typically for 20 to 25 years before execution in many states.
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Daniel Farris

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2007, 12:12:13 pm »

ScotcH wrote on Thu, 13 December 2007 07:57

Can you explain this JJ?  Seems like an awfully large number for a bit of poison .... (I'm assuming there are "hidden" costs, but I have no idea what could be?)



An exhaustive appeals process.

DF
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Jay Kadis

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2007, 02:02:38 pm »

Daniel Farris wrote on Thu, 13 December 2007 09:12

ScotcH wrote on Thu, 13 December 2007 07:57

Can you explain this JJ?  Seems like an awfully large number for a bit of poison .... (I'm assuming there are "hidden" costs, but I have no idea what could be?)



An exhaustive appeals process.

DF
And still people are found through DNA evidence to be innocent of the crimes for which they are sentenced.  This is what makes the death penalty troubling.  I wouldn't necessarily oppose certain executions if I could be certain the party was guilty, but executing one innocent person is one too many.  Anyway, the state should not be in the revenge business and it appears the death penalty is ineffective in detering murder anyway.

mgod

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Re: The irony of meat-eating Animal rights activists
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2007, 02:18:26 pm »

But it appeals to those with "righteous" Laughing indignation who read the bible as a treatise on justifiable homicide despite such statements as "Vengeance is mine!" and Jesus' admonitions against judgment and in favor of loving your enemy.

DS
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