R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread  (Read 44867 times)

compasspnt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16266
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2007, 05:24:50 PM »

What about the later fet versions of this mic?

Same capsule and implementation (except for obvious fet v. tube differences)?
Logged

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2007, 05:56:01 PM »

I haven't chimed in on this thread because I didn't want to spoil a good thing (i.e. the perception by most that this mic is dandy.)

I never liked the C37A all that much, and would put it into the category "Post War Japan makes good" (as in their tiny late 1950s sports cars patterned after Fiats.)

The C37A always struck me as a poor cousin of a ....?? Neumann mic: pretty poor craftsmanship, akin to what the Russians did in the 1970s; not much personality, pretty bad tube choice, cathode follower circuit with its associated gain and dynamic problems, etc...

...and then Sony went downhill from there with its FET mics... so I think.

Best regards,
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2007, 08:37:48 PM »

And then came the C800G!
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2007, 01:37:43 AM »

While we are on the subject of currently produced Sony studio condenser mics:

What is the service and parts situation? Can anyone contribute who had a real service  or parts call for a C800 (G) in the last couple of years what that experience has been like?
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2007, 02:33:34 AM »

So, I finally had a night free to mess around with my two mics, and find out why the low end doesn't match.  I measured all the caps and resistors, and they were pretty spot on.  I was shocked, thinking that paper filled caps marked 1960 would be a culprit.  Not so.  

(BTW, if I switch to PP caps, do you guys think that might improve the noise floor?)

Also, I tried swapping tubes PSUs around, and that did not change the bottom end.  So I finally swapped capsules, and they are definitely the culprit.  

Something tells me that I'm not going to be able to find another pair of capsules for these.  Am I?
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Dominick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2007, 06:42:37 AM »

Isn't the C800 (not G) capsule the same as the C37A ?
Logged
Dominick Costanzo

Silvertone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1105
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2007, 08:59:16 AM »

I had James Gangwer rebuild one of my capsules on my Russian Stereo Tube mic. He did an excellent job. The sea foam green plastic housing had been broken by someone trying to turn the top capsule the wrong way for M/S recording. See below.

James also takes care of my Sony C37A's. Klaus had recommended me to James many years ago after he moved from S.F.

As for the noise floor I'm afraid that may be something you have to live with.  James tried a few different things (a couple different times that he had one of my mic's) and nothing improved the noise floor. Just think of it as dither and you'll be fine Very Happy
index.php/fa/6938/0/
Logged
Larry DeVivo
Silvertone Mastering, Inc.
PO Box 4582
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
www.silvertonemastering.com
To see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/  (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2007, 12:08:56 PM »

Thanks, Larry.  I too use James, and he's been through these mics a couple of years ago.  I didn't know he rebuilds capsules, if you mean reskinning.  I'm reticent to reskin a capsule, however.  I know the C800 is based on a similar capsule, but I don't know if it's a direct replacement.  I do know that they use the same screw system in the back, though.

Does anybody have a C800, who is willing to take a picture of the capsule?
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

jetbase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2007, 05:31:11 PM »

JJ, on the previous page of this thread a Josephson copy of the Sony capsule was mentioned. Just thought I'd bring it up in case that was a possible avenue for you to pursue.
Logged
sleep is not an option

jwhynot: "There's a difference between thinking or acting dogmatically and drawing from experience."


Glenn Santry
http://www.myspace.com/glennsantry

Haolemon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 112
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2007, 07:47:51 PM »

That would be the Groove Tubes model 3 or 3a, made and sold before the debacle with Alesis.  They listed for $2K around 8 years ago.  I bought one when Full Compass was blowing out the last of the stock.  I like it very much for certain vocal situations.
Logged

Silvertone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1105
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2007, 08:02:50 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Wed, 12 December 2007 11:08

Thanks, Larry.  I too use James, and he's been through these mics a couple of years ago.  I didn't know he rebuilds capsules, if you mean reskinning.  I'm reticent to reskin a capsule, however.  I know the C800 is based on a similar capsule, but I don't know if it's a direct replacement.  I do know that they use the same screw system in the back, though.

Does anybody have a C800, who is willing to take a picture of the capsule?


Hi JJ,

I believe James will re-skin the capsule also. But I know what you mean, not sure if I'd bother or just find a replacement.

When my friend Scott Benson and I were shooting out the Sony mic's a few years ago we noticed that the C800 and the C37A capsule looked to be the same. Not only that, it sounded exactly the same only the noise floor on the C800 was about 10dB lower then the C37A. After researching this further this led Scott to sell his C37A but keep the 800.

I'll email him later today and ask him to take a shot of the capsule and post it here.

If not I have another engineer friend I could ask who also owns an C800.
Logged
Larry DeVivo
Silvertone Mastering, Inc.
PO Box 4582
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
www.silvertonemastering.com
To see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/  (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2007, 09:39:24 AM »

Thanks, Larry!  

the shame about the C37 capsule is that there seems to be now screws or any way to disassemble it.  I was hoping that perhaps there was some way to adjust a tension ring or something, but I don't see a single screw on there, besides the pattern selector.

If the C800 capsules are a direct replacement, however, I might look into see in if I can get a pair.

As far as the lower noise in the C800s, does that use a cathode follower circuit also?
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Tim Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2007, 01:32:46 PM »

J.J.,
Dale Ulan who contributes to this forum has rebuilt a few of these capsules and I believe he's currently manufacturing a capsule based on the Sony. You should contact him.

About the noise floor. The design of this capsule is such that it limits it's output. There's really nothing that can be done beyond making sure the amplifier's working properly.
Logged
Campbell Transmitter
www.timcampbell.dk

Dale Ulan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 120
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2007, 03:00:50 PM »

I've built a few that are 'loosely' based on the C37 capsule. There are a lot of metal parts in the original, all with rather fine threads. I don't have the correct tooling for my CNC to make those fine internal threads. One nice thing about this capsule design, however, is that the tension can be set in-situ. The diaphragm only needs to be glued to its mounting ring with even, loose, tension. Mine follows the same acoustic principles, and a very similar hole pattern, but I used a glued-in diaphragm and diaphragm spacer arrangement like an M7 or M8. I don't really have much intention of making an exact clone of the C37 - for one, I don't have a vintage C37 to compare it to - I only have access to a pair that I redid the diaphragms on. To be quite honest, I don't think I'll be making a lot more mic capsules. It's getting a bit tiring and I'm trying to learn to play the bassoon again.

I don't really like redoing diaphragms because although the mic sounds good, I can't reference an original unless I have one that hasn't been wrecked. That is usually not the case. Also, although I can tell 'good' from 'mediocre', I have a hard time consistently telling apart 'good' from 'excellent' - there are many people in the business (including the host of this forum) with more skill at that than I have - this is a hobby for me, and not my living.

In this case, a previous owner decided to 'clean' the diaphragms off. He did that to a Nylon CK12 as well. Fortunately, the C37 is easier from a repair perspective because the tension adjustment is not permanent - in fact, the capsules can be matched fairly easily with slight adjustments of the tensioning adjustment. Surprisingly enough, looser tension does not necessarily mean more bass output on this capsule design.

The output of the C37 capsule is limited primarily by the acoustic design. The output is roughly 10dB lower than the M7 capsule (for the same sound pressure level). There are only sixteen blind holes in the C37 and around sixty on an M7.

This also means that you can't just take any old 6AU6 tube and shove it into a C37. I had a microphonic C37 on my bench, and we just had to live with it. All of my replacement 6AU6 tubes had too much noise. One was almost acceptable. I had about twenty of those tubes. Maybe one in a hundred would be ok? Or maybe another manufacturer? Even the Altec M11 'Coke Bottle' puts out much more signal, it'll tolerate a bit of hiss from the tube and not be so noticeable.

The mics can be retensioned but you need to know the internal structure. All of the little spanner wrench holes in the back need to be used in the proper manner. They can be serviced!!! The outer set is a lock ring. The inner set holds the backplate. You need to loosen the lock ring first, then you can adjust the backplate in or out to adjust the tension, then tighten the lock ring. You will need to have the correct wrenches for the job and you can't buy them at your local hardware store.

-Dale Ulan
10,000 Cows Recording Studio
Logged
Dale Ulan
10000 Cows Recording Studio
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: The (Semi) Official Sony C37A Thread
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2007, 04:00:59 PM »

Dale, thank you so much.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.151 seconds with 21 queries.