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Author Topic: OK, defend this.  (Read 8850 times)

maxim

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2007, 07:20:25 pm »

" I find it interesting how you avoid even discussing the sexism of the culture."

koran is less sexist than the bible.
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Ashermusic

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2007, 07:25:29 pm »

i dig music wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 22:05

asher, i feel your solutions on how to address the issues are in direct conflict with your argument and position. it's almost like your playing both sides of the fence.

this tells me there is something else bothering you.

what is it?





I do not see a contradiction.

I define what I see as a problem and suggest what I consider appropriate ways to deal with it. As I said, I do not claim to have all the answers.

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Ashermusic

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2007, 07:27:25 pm »

maxim wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 00:20

" I find it interesting how you avoid even discussing the sexism of the culture."

koran is less sexist than the bible.



That may be, but the practitioners are not. Tell me  honestly, do you know a  Christian that believes it is OK to kill his daughter if she dishonors him?
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i dig music

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2007, 07:28:13 pm »

Ashermusic wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 18:11

i dig music wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 23:46

studiojimi wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 16:58

malice wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 14:22


I think I'm done with the subject, really.




promise?



i think you guys should kiss and make up.

like i said earlier, it only takes one ass-hole to ruin a party, and neither of you were remotely close to being the one.

you guys use to be friends.... but were effected by the same brand of shit politics, {different place} we are talking about here.

say hello...how are you. it's not that hard.




Hey, I am not angry with anyone here. We are having an exchange of ideas and we disagree.




i said your ideas conflict with your solutions.

sorry, can't have it both ways.
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R. Steele

Ashermusic

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2007, 07:45:40 pm »

[/quote]

i said your ideas conflict with your solutions.

sorry, can't have it both ways.
[/quote]

Your saying it is so does not make it so.

OK, I think Malice is right, we have done this.
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2007, 08:41:20 pm »

Ashermusic wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 00:27

maxim wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 00:20

" I find it interesting how you avoid even discussing the sexism of the culture."

koran is less sexist than the bible.



That may be, but the practitioners are not. Tell me  honestly, do you know a  Christian that believes it is OK to kill his daughter if she dishonors him?


Well Hassan Habash apparantly for a start...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1512394,00.htm l

In 2003 the police suspected they had 12 honour killings in the UK, which were not just amongst muslims, but also Sikhs and Christians.

Until 1991 it was legal in Brazil to kill your wife if you found her in an act of adultry, similarly in Colombia until 1980, and still the case in Haiti... none of these are muslim countries.

Yes, the majority of honour killings do seem to be in muslim families, but not all by any means. It seems to be cultural, not religious.

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Ashermusic

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2007, 09:07:53 pm »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 01:41

Ashermusic wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 00:27

maxim wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 00:20

" I find it interesting how you avoid even discussing the sexism of the culture."

koran is less sexist than the bible.



That may be, but the practitioners are not. Tell me  honestly, do you know a  Christian that believes it is OK to kill his daughter if she dishonors him?


Well Hassan Habash apparantly for a start...

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1512394,00.htm l

In 2003 the police suspected they had 12 honour killings in the UK, which were not just amongst muslims, but also Sikhs and Christians.

Until 1991 it was legal in Brazil to kill your wife if you found her in an act of adultry, similarly in Colombia until 1980, and still the case in Haiti... none of these are muslim countries.

Yes, the majority of honour killings do seem to be in muslim families, but not all by any means. It seems to be cultural, not religious.




Interesting. Well then I must change the question to, "Do you know a Christian born and raised in a Western civilization country who  believes it is OK to kill his daughter if she dishonors him?"

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Larrchild

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2007, 09:35:44 pm »

Ever see "Carrie"?

Those people like her mom  exist.
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maxim

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2007, 10:19:52 pm »

"Tell me honestly, do you know a Christian that believes it is OK to kill his daughter if she dishonors him?"

a few years ago in australia, a CHRISTIAN ?macedonian father did just that

if you google it, sikhs and hindus have also done it

nothing to do with the religion, it seems
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PP

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2007, 04:01:32 am »

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maxim

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2007, 05:30:32 am »

thank goodness

lucky she was british...
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mgod

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2007, 10:40:15 am »

Looks like there was nothing to defend after all - except of course for non-Muslim sexism. Asher?

For months you've been trolling for condemnation of Islam here and not getting it, and when confronted with the failure of your  "propaganda presented as if it were fact" self-deception you narrow the question down to a specific small event.

Hey, here's a similar question: "Name a president worse than Bill Clinton who was a Democrat named Bill Clinton and was married to someone named Hillary?" See? There isn't one. Democrats are obviously the worst. Completely illogical.  

That kind of thinking cost us a lot of money in the 90s.

Now I guess, to be reasonable, you're going to have to defend your jumping the gun like this in your further condemnations of people you don't like, who failed to live up to your condemnation.

DS
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mgod

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2007, 10:48:31 am »

Ashermusic wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 13:09


Your idea of going Clarke one better is is essentially how Neville Chamberlain proposed dealing with Hitler and we all saw how well that worked.
Bullshit - change of subject. Its never been tried. The Muslim nations show no sign of any expansionism and haven't for well over a thousand years. You're so immersed in  rhetoric on both sides you can't see what's right in front of you - just like Chamberlain.

"So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe they will be a small people - a silly people."

This is a quote from "Lawrence of Arabia". Its still how the west views the world of Islam - with total disrespect.

There is no Muslim terrorist threat that is or can be divorced from the military threat they face from the west, specifically the US. We depose their heads of state and wonder why they fight back. Who gives them the right to try to control their own destiny? You use a few religious cranks, no more than we have here and who justify terrorism here at home in the name of Jesus, to vilify whole populations' resistance to Western manipulation. Good boy, good lap dog for the Neocons!

DS
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Ashermusic

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2007, 12:15:53 pm »

mgod wrote on Mon, 03 December 2007 15:48

Ashermusic wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 13:09


Your idea of going Clarke one better is is essentially how Neville Chamberlain proposed dealing with Hitler and we all saw how well that worked.
Bullshit - change of subject. Its never been tried. The Muslim nations show no sign of any expansionism and haven't for well over a thousand years. You're so immersed in  rhetoric on both sides you can't see what's right in front of you - just like Chamberlain.

"So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe they will be a small people - a silly people."

This is a quote from "Lawrence of Arabia". Its still how the west views the world of Islam - with total disrespect.

There is no Muslim terrorist threat that is or can be divorced from the military threat they face from the west, specifically the US. We depose their heads of state and wonder why they fight back. Who gives them the right to try to control their own destiny? You use a few religious cranks, no more than we have here and who justify terrorism here at home in the name of Jesus, to vilify whole populations' resistance to Western manipulation. Good boy, good lap dog for the Neocons!

DS



OK, I wanted to be out of this but some things here in this emotional outpouring I have to address.

I am not a neo-con or any kind of conservative. I am a Centrist Democrat, roughly in the political spectrum of Bill and Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. My views by and large are what they say. And they are not neo-cons except in the perception of one who is so far to the left that the center  looks like the right.

If it is all about their perceived military threat by the west then how do you explain the large numbers of Sunnis killing Shias, Shias killing Sunnis, either killing Kurds, etc.

Once again, not ALL Muslims, but there is simply no denying the fact that a substantial number of Muslims believe it is permissible to kill others, including other Muslims, because they do not share their specific brand of Islam.

If Israel disappeared tomorrow and every Western power left the Middle East you still would have Muslims killing Muslims.  To deny this is to prove oneself distanced from reality.

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mgod

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Re: OK, defend this.
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2007, 12:54:22 pm »

Muslims do indeed kill Muslims. And over, what appears to us, to be truly silly shit. I wouldn't personally want to have to engage with either side in trying to understand their justification for it. When two western nations go to war, you have Christians killing Christians.

And as Tom Lehrer told us, "Everybody hates the Jews."

"Oh the white folks hate the black folks
And the black folks hate the white folks
To hate all but the right folks
It's American as apple pie."

You keep changing the subject. There are substantial numbers of every kind of person who think it OK to kill others - not just Mooslims. Witness our American 2003 slaughter from the air of an innocent populace who had nothing to do with attacking us in 2001. You seem to think that's OK - even though far greater numbers of "those types" were killed than "our types." This is simply terrorism, with a nationalist justification behind it. I understand you don't support this war - how then to support the excuse, which continue to be justified by demonizing Islam?

It might well be that if Israel was not there, but more importantly if we had no bases there, we would have no conflict with that part of the world. Currently, and for a large part of the last century, we've been literally or practically an invading and occupying force.

If we were gone then they're killing each other would be their own business, and you likely wouldn't have any more opinion to express about it than you do about Africans slaughtering Africans for ancient tribal reasons: i.e. 0.

DS

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