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Author Topic: Need album recomendations  (Read 12704 times)

craig boychuk

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2004, 01:12:35 PM »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 14 May 2004 09:15

mid-fi wrote on Fri, 07 May 2004 18:57

May I suggest "TNT" by Tortoise. It's basically a modern jazz record that isn't contrived, cliche, or cheesy like so much recent jazz.



the last thing i would ever call tortoise is "modern jazz".  it's a group of ex-indie rockers that just tried to do something different.  it's almost, and probably very similar to, calling Kenny G jazz.



No, you are quite mistaken. It is not like calling Kenny G jazz. THAT is the most ridiculous comparason I've ever heard. They are indeed ex-indie rockers, doing something different that sounds jazz influenced. Perhaps to call them "modern jazz" was incorrect. Unfortunately, what one genre title means to one person can mean something quite different to another.
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Jonas as

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2004, 09:01:10 PM »

Hi Mid-fi,

got to agree with you on this one.

Jan Garbarek? Dave Grusin?
Talk about bad taste!!!!!
Thats a link to Kenny G.! (Which does play kinda sharp, tuningwise, but at least not so many #4's as "sir Jan")

Tortoise, however; Ah! Uhm! that's better.
Modern Jazz? Nah! that would be an insult towards tortoise.
Jazz is dead, and it's in a museum called the Marsalis family.
Modern music? Yes! and it's good, and it sounds good.
I wouldn't call it Kind of blue level, but they are definately one of many artists that has come forward with suggestions as to the "shape of jazz to come", if there where any.
Garbarek, (wich nowdays prefers to practice in dry rooms, well specially one dry room, wich accidentally has a PA and a Lexicon 480, his livingroom) togheter with Keith Jarret made some beautiful records in the 70's, wich has a very strong root in a major(as opposed to minor)focused tonality aka. third relations of second and third degree of major chords kind of modulations. As opposed to IV-II-V-I  progressions etc. It's a bit taking out part of coltranes minor third-up - fourth up - minor third up etc. replacement for II-V and expanding it with other third relations. The stereolab/tortoise segment of post rock kind of opens up a bit of the same thing- it's very fresh sounding.

My recomandation as for listening;
Beth Gibbons and Rustin Man; Out of season.
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craig boychuk

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2004, 09:47:18 PM »

Thanks for the backup there, bora. I guess by "modern jazz" I meant stuff that's not just recycling old ideas. Whatevs, I'm terrible with genres. If I owned a record store there would be one category called "music", and it would be alphabetical. Yep.

Fresh indeed...
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pg666

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2004, 02:09:02 PM »

another good reference disc by John Mcentire (modern 'jazz/fusion' labeling aside) would be the For Carnation s/t record. it's very mellow, but the looooow 5 string bass notes on some of the songs could be a good litmus test for the subs.
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j.hall

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2004, 05:35:23 PM »

bora wrote on Sun, 16 May 2004 20:01


Tortoise, .......the "shape of jazz to come"



i'm a tortoise fan....

but if tortoise is the shape of jazz to come, that is just plain sad.

and really.....this whole "tortoise is jazz" debate is about 5 years too late and has already been discussed into the ground.....

go check out "the bad plus" if you want true modern jazz

tortoise can bleep and bloop their way into the next galaxy all they want.....it won't be jazz over there, and it isn't jazz here.


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Jonas as

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2004, 08:17:48 AM »

hmm, bad plus modern jazz
you are wrong.
something tells me we won't agree on this Cool
And i guess we'll both survive that.

Went over to itunes and checked out your bad plus.
let's take the sound asthetical part first.
The Kickdrum sounded like early nineties rock, ouicch!
The bass sounded like a DI'ed one with no hi-pass.
If the poor engineer atleast had used some hi-pass, it could have sounded like some early to mid 90's "bad studio, can't afford to isolate the upright so we'll use an DI and put som chorus on it" kind of bass. It gave me the same bad vibe as 5-strings do.
Very thin cymbals, that sounds like american jazzrecords from the 80's(you know when everyone started to use splash cymbals, and they wanted to have them close miked)
The piano sounded Yamaha, thats really bad, makes me think of chic corea.

The emphasis on short roomsound with some caracther was a nice tough.  
And also making compressors heard musically in an acoustic setting, nice.
But then again "revolver" opened with a squashed cymbal 38 years ago.
 
musically:
This sounds to me like a copycat band. Have you ever heard about EST; The Essbjoern Svenson trio? They have done this kind of stuff for years, and better played too, and likewise with  their astetichs.

EST have fewer fragments of "acid-jazz" wich i heard a few elements of in your bad plus.
If you want the ultimate in that, you could always check out track 2 on squarepusher's "music is one rotted one" (don't go plastic)

The thing is, that it actually sounds like your bad plus also has listened to an album, wich EST also is heavily influenced by: You should be able to hear it within the first few seconds of the opening of  Jan Johansson's album "jazz paa rysska" ("jazz the russian way") from 1967.    
His album "jazz paa svenska" from a few years earlier is perhaps even better, but a bit more bill evans influenced.

You won't think of the bad plus as modern after hearing EST and Johansson, THAT VERY THING  is simply done over and over before.

The sad part is, that jan johanssons magic mixture of pop/jazz and folkmusic influence ultimately led people like Garbarek to dwell into folk-music and trying to find the aurora borealis somewhere inside an 480L.  

If you want to check out more jazz influenced stuff than tortoise in the post-rock,
post-jazz, neo-fusion whatever you want to call it if neccesary genre,
you just might want to check out Jaga Jazzist, and their albums "the stix" from 2002 or "a livingroom hush" from 2001.
And those album are great album recommandations for any listening too. Razz
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j.hall

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2004, 09:41:14 AM »

bora wrote on Tue, 18 May 2004 07:17


Went over to itunes and checked out your bad plus.
let's take the sound asthetical part first.
The Kickdrum sounded like early nineties rock, ouicch!
The bass sounded like a DI'ed one with no hi-pass.
If the poor engineer atleast had used some hi-pass, it could have sounded like some early to mid 90's "bad studio, can't afford to isolate the upright so we'll use an DI and put som chorus on it" kind of bass. It gave me the same bad vibe as 5-strings do.
Very thin cymbals, that sounds like american jazzrecords from the 80's(you know when everyone started to use splash cymbals, and they wanted to have them close miked)
The piano sounded Yamaha, thats really bad, makes me think of chic corea.



oh, i get it....."modern jazz" is defined by production
i was confused on that....thanks for clearing it up

i hardly think tchad blake is a "poor engineer" needing to locate a hi-pass filter due to his own incompetence.

nothing....and i mean NOTHING, out of the grudge era alt rock production can even compare to the work tchad blake does.  you don't like, and that's totally fine, but don't bring completely baseless comparisons into this.

Quote:


The emphasis on short roomsound with some caracther was a nice tough.  
And also making compressors heard musically in an acoustic setting, nice.
But then again "revolver" opened with a squashed cymbal 38 years ago.



hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahah

let's burn him at the stake for using a compressor......LONG LIVE THE BEATLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:


musically:
This sounds to me like a copycat band. Have you ever heard about EST; The Essbjoern Svenson trio? They have done this kind of stuff for years, and better played too, and likewise with  their astetichs...................



fair enough.....

Quote:


The thing is, that it actually sounds like your bad plus



how come you keep saying that, they are mine. they are a band that makes music and records records for anyone on the planet to buy.  they do not belong to me.

Quote:


You won't think of the bad plus as modern after hearing EST and Johansson, THAT VERY THING  is simply done over and over before.



and you wouldn't think tortoise was jazz if you hear any indie rock band using a space echo and analog synth keyboards
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craig boychuk

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2004, 01:43:38 PM »

Keeroyst, what a ridiculous argument. All I meant is that Tortoise is jazz influenced.  It was a mistake to call them jazz.

Let's just agree to disagree, folks. Non?
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j.hall

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2004, 03:16:39 PM »

mid-fi wrote on Tue, 18 May 2004 12:43


Let's just agree to disagree, folks. Non?


naw, that's way to boring.....

discussion is how we learn.....i've never even heard of the artists bora mentioned.....had i not have engaged in this discusion i never would have.....

no one is arguing here.......at least, i'm not...
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Jonas as

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2004, 06:48:57 PM »

<no one is arguing here

Agreed,  I find being opinionated about music quite natural, doing what we are doing:-)  People even pay me(not nearly enough) for my opinions about music.

I belong to the generation wich really does only seperate good music and bad music.
I used to call myself a jazz-musician, because i'm formally trained as one, but to my suprise i found the spirit that i tought in my naive way was the whole point about jazz, the urge to make  something fresh, somewhere totally different. And that was amongst the post-rock/post-jazz guys.

And thats why i say that jazz- if it where alive, should have sounded like tortoise, or rather i sort of agree with you and say;
If jazz where alive 5 years ago, it should have sounded like tortoise. Now it should have sounded like something else! (and by that i don't think of the ornette coleman record:-)
Sometimes i think i hear "IT" in the split second after someone has put a record on, but then i realize, it's only the Beatles.  


If you or anyone else have other recomandations about music that you think are modern and fresh, again "something else". Is this an acceptable place to recomend it?    
-Bora

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jazzius

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2004, 02:19:31 AM »

IMO, "Jazz" dissapeared up its own arse in the late fifties/early sixties......however, "Jazzy-ness" continued to thrive up until today......cheers....D.

bblackwood

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2004, 10:57:47 AM »

jazzius wrote on Wed, 19 May 2004 01:19

IMO, "Jazz" dissapeared up its own arse in the late fifties/early sixties.....

Oh, some great stuff came out a little later than that, like Miles Davis' 'Bitches Brew', Stanley Clarke's 'School Days', and Jaco Pastorius' self-titled debut (to name just a few), but the 1950-1960 era was definitely the golden age of jazz...
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Brad Blackwood
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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2004, 12:06:23 PM »

jazzius wrote on Wed, 19 May 2004 02:19

IMO, "Jazz" dissapeared up its own arse in the late fifties/early sixties......however, "Jazzy-ness" continued to thrive up until today......cheers....D.


I think the Knitting Factory/Tonic crowd has put out some outstanding stuff in the last, oh my, twenty years or so. There has been a whole heap of it and quality varies. The crowd gets an A for being adventurous. There is a very wide variety of stuff from the likes of John Zorn, Arto Lindsay, Fred Frith, Bobby Previte, Elliot Sharp, John Lurie...
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j.hall

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2004, 02:32:10 PM »

bora wrote on Tue, 18 May 2004 17:48


If you or anyone else have other recomandations about music that you think are modern and fresh, again "something else". Is this an acceptable place to recomend it?    



there is a thread in my forum right now, "what are you listening to"

it seems to pop up from time to time and i always end up tracking down at least ten new bands' websites to hear em

check that thread for some ideas.....post your current play list on there.....

as far as stuff that is "fresh"

man that's really hard

but i'd have to throw these out in a category of bands i've heard (5 years to present) that are doing something just a little different then i've heard before

soul coughing (it's art rock, poetry, jazz.....i don't know)
pretty girls make graves (spastic indie rock)
les savy fav (total new york post punk art rock)
flaming lips (been around a long time, just different)
outkast (i love them.....so sue me)
bjork (when do we get another record from her?????)
john vanderslice (more traditional pop, with a twist all his own)
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Jan

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Re: Need album recomendations
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2004, 05:58:52 AM »

jazzius,

maybe listen to madonna's ray of light.. Also sounds great...!
other well recorded more heavy pop: morphine..
and james taylor has also some nice sounding records.. but i haven't listened very much to it..

btw, still working in wisseloord?
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