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Author Topic: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering  (Read 3901 times)

Andy Krehm

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32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« on: November 12, 2007, 02:04:31 pm »

I got a 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for master.

Oviously I understand the 32 bit part but have never seen 64.000 kHz file.

Anyone?

Dave Davis

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 02:33:44 pm »

Are you talking sample rate (as in 64,000 kHz)?  That's definitely a wierd number!

In theoretical terms, 64K s/r has been discussed as an "ideal" compromise between bandwidth needed for our ears and anti-imaging filters and efficient transport, but I'm unaware of any commercial systems using it in the field.

Are you sure it's not a 32kHz s/r, saved with 64 bit native (d/p) words?

Interesting...

-d-
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Andy Krehm

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 02:50:37 pm »

Dave Davis wrote on Mon, 12 November 2007 14:33

Are you talking sample rate (as in 64,000 kHz)?  That's definitely a wierd number!

In theoretical terms, 64K s/r has been discussed as an "ideal" compromise between bandwidth needed for our ears and anti-imaging filters and efficient transport, but I'm unaware of any commercial systems using it in the field.

Are you sure it's not a 32kHz s/r, saved with 64 bit native (d/p) words?

Interesting...

-d-

I'm using Wave Editor to analyze and convert and it definitely says Rate: 64.000!! It's the only program I have that will recognize it.

I tried converting it to a 24 bit file and load it into Pro Tools but PTs wants to convert it to one of the standard rates.

I've sent an email to the client to see if he can tell me what's going on.

TotalSonic

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 03:44:33 pm »

There's no DAC I know of that can output 64kHz (although later generation DAT players often had 32kHz as an option for "extended play" modes).  

One thing I like about SAWStudio is that it can load a wav or aiff file at any standard or custom sample rate up to 384kHz and then play it back using a realtime SRC algorithm at any other rate you wish so that you can preview it without having to perform src to the file first.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson

cerberus

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 07:24:21 pm »

Andy Krehm wrote on Mon, 12 November 2007 14:50

I'm using Wave Editor to analyze and convert and it definitely says Rate: 64.000!! It's the only program I have that will recognize it.
unless the mix engineer is a kinky monkey,  it's likely that the data was
written in some earthly format. perhaps the header is screwey.  

jeff dinces

Andy Krehm

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 11:22:56 pm »

Here's an excerpt of what my client had to say:

"....It was all done on Cubase. and i figured out that it WAS happening during the save stage for the .wav files. So all of the finished files that remain in the program are all standard, but all of the wav files that were being saved outside were being saved as 64 kHz. hahah and don't ask me why this is but throughout the project cubase has thrown random mysteries our way.. so i guess i would rule it as some sort of weird cubase thing. Now that it's been recognized hopefully it'll stay fixed.. i've never checked the actual sample rate of any of the bounced wav files yet so i don't really know how long this has been going on...."

(the above is from my client so if quoting please do not attribute it directly to me!)

BTW, I just heard from someone that Radar 7 actully will allow one to mix at 64 kHz.

masterlab

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 04:13:08 am »

So Cubase did a SRC to 64kHz (it can do all SRC/sample rates during export).
If possible, ask for bounces in native samplerate.
If impossible, prepare for a slight edgyness...
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-a-
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Andy Krehm

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 09:00:43 am »

masterlab wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 04:13

So Cubase did a SRC to 64kHz (it can do all SRC/sample rates during export).
If possible, ask for bounces in native samplerate.
If impossible, prepare for a slight edgyness...


He is going to rebounce but is obviously a newbie at this.

What is the Cubase native sample rate or where should he look to find it?

It's been my observation that a lot of people just boot up a session and just start recording with no awareness that they can select a bit/sample rate.

MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 09:58:20 am »

i think Wavelab can read/write 64k files...

i got a project in for mastering once where all the files were 24 bit/44.2kHz. if anyone can make sense of that one, i'll buy you a cookie.
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hnewman

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 10:37:33 am »

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 09:58

i think Wavelab can read/write 64k files...

i got a project in for mastering once where all the files were 24 bit/44.2kHz. if anyone can make sense of that one, i'll buy you a cookie.



That probably was a file either output from or destined for flash animation.  It needs to run at 22.079 khz or a multiplier thereof in order to keep time properly.  Don't ask me why.  This guy explains it, but I'm not so good at the reading.  

http://www.funnygarbage.com/flog/index.php?/archives/35-Dave s-Flash-Tips-of-the-Week-1-22.079kHz-The-Magic-Number!.html

Mmmm, cookies.

masterlab

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 11:55:10 am »

Andy Krehm wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 15:00


He is going to rebounce but is obviously a newbie at this.

What is the Cubase native sample rate or where should he look to find it?

It's been my observation that a lot of people just boot up a session and just start recording with no awareness that they can select a bit/sample rate.


It's a setting he needs to do while exporting:
index.php/fa/6645/0/

If it is NOT the projects native samplerate Cubase will SRC.

The project sample rate can be set elsewhere and gives an error if it is not the same as the SR of the audio hardware.
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    andreas balaskas
chief mastering engineer
    www.masterlab.de
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Bob Boyd

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 12:24:00 pm »

hnewman wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 09:37

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 09:58

i think Wavelab can read/write 64k files...

i got a project in for mastering once where all the files were 24 bit/44.2kHz. if anyone can make sense of that one, i'll buy you a cookie.



That probably was a file either output from or destined for flash animation.  It needs to run at 22.079 khz or a multiplier thereof in order to keep time properly.  Don't ask me why.  This guy explains it, but I'm not so good at the reading.  

 http://www.funnygarbage.com/flog/index.php?/archives/35-Dave s-Flash-Tips-of-the-Week-1-22.079kHz-The-Magic-Number!.html

Mmmm, cookies.

Interesting.  While it doesn't quite round up, my first guess would have been that 44.2k was somehow tied to the video "pull-up" rate of 44144Hz.
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Bob Boyd
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MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 12:53:22 pm »

afaik the files were from one of those roland VS1680 dealies and didn't have anything to do with video or flash or anything. but who knows. have some cookies anyway.

http://www.library.drexel.edu/blogs/thesuggestionbox/Cookies.jpg
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Bob Boyd

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 02:35:35 pm »

but it begs the question - did it sound .1 better than 44.1k?
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Bob Boyd
ambientdigital, Houston

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Look, I know it's mean.  But sometimes the end justifies the mean.

hnewman

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 02:50:08 pm »

Bob Boyd wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 14:35

but it begs the question - did it sound .1 better than 44.1k?


I just tossed my cookies.

Bob Olhsson

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 12:09:54 am »

Somebody may have changed the header in order to trick an application's automatic SRC into changing the playback speed. I used to do this myself but then I always converted the sample rate of the file.

Bob Olhsson

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2007, 08:02:01 pm »

I just hit this with Samplitude reading a 96k 32 bit float AIFF file that originated on a Mac.

SaraCon read it correctly and I converted it to .wav.

Earth Terminal Studios

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Re: 32 bit 64.000 kHz file for mastering
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2007, 10:27:41 pm »

I'm not so sure that the Cubase export sample rate setting performs a SRC. If an 'in the box mix' project is running at say - 48/24bit and you export the mix at 88/32 I'm pretty sure that the file is rendered direct to that sample rate specified. There's certainly no wait after export for the file to convert, so it must be converted 'on the fly' which is not the same thing as a SRC.
Unless I'm mistaken, your client would be better to export the songs at 96/32 or 96/24.
Can anyone shed any light on this?

Lewis
Earth Terminal Studios
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