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Author Topic: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts  (Read 11739 times)

Fred Rogers

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2004, 02:32:35 AM »

tptman wrote on Fri, 07 May 2004 20:13

Another yea vote for the S3As. A truly eautiful piece of gear.


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Peter "tptman" Green


That's all good stuff, guys.  I'm going to have to revisit the ADAM site to remind myself of the line.  I am going to be in the market for at least 1 or 2 5:1 systems, and ADAM's would be a consideration, along with Genelecs, B&W 902's, and/or perhaps some ADC's or PMC's.  I want something that will fill a control room of 3000 cubic feet (10' high by 15' wide by 20' long), and I'm going to want to be able to pump some level.  I think for my purpose a sub will be a necessity.  I don't want to soffit main monitors, but rather use a free-standing 5:1 for my "mains".  thanks for the input...
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Phil O'Keefe

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2004, 02:51:39 AM »

One of the best investments I've ever made was purchasing my S3-A's. Well worth the money spent.
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Pier

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2004, 02:30:22 PM »

I understand everyone here loves their speakers and I'm not saying they're bad, but I had a very different opinion after testing them and A/Bing them.  I picked the BM15as and not just because they're 1/2 the price.  

What I heard from all the ADAMs including the S-3A was a general failure to marry the best tweeter in the world with any woofer of any size.  The dispersion of the ADAM tweeter, while wider than other ribbons I've heard (recently the SLS model), is still limited.  If you're in the sweetspot the imaging is phenomenal and you do hear phase with incredible detail, but only in the range the tweeter covers.  I found low end phase and detail much less clear.  Also, aside from my opinion that the low end on the S-3A is weirdly center-focused giving it a thuddy and opaque sound, the real problem is how it interacts with the tweeter.  The crossover point exhibits the same characteristics of so many speakers of being both cloudy and piercing at the same time.  Essentially it obscures detail in that range which is an extremely crucial range.  It's your lead vox, snare, guitars, attack of the kick, bass, floor tom, wash of the cymbals...etc.  Granted that murkey and assalting quality is nowhere near as bad as in say the Mackies that have become so popular, but it's still there.  At least when compared to the Dynaudios.  It wasn't something I picked up on when I was only listening to the ADAMs (which was how I began my test since I went in thinking I wanted them).

I did my listening test at Dale Audio in NYC.  The ADAMs rep had place the S-3As himself so, this should not have been an issue of the listening environment.  I think it's interesting that almost everyone here transfered from Genelecs.  The 1031s have a similar issue although it's manifested in a different way.  1031s aren't piercing or cloudy, but the woofers are hyped in a really bad way to make them phase-accurate with the tweeters.  There's a real imposed tightness on the low end that sounds great but doesn't translate and again, the worst band in terms of translation was the cross-over frequencies.  While my experience with the ADAMs was limited to the one test at Dale, I've done many mixes and tracking sessions on 1031s and those issues are well established.  

In the process of doing my listening test I developed a philosophy of speaker reproduction.  Speakers are a gestalt phenomena.  We're listening to one sound being generated by discrete components.  The greater the difference between these components, the more the gestalt phenomena breaks down.  The more aware you are of the individual components, the worse the translation will be.  Both Genelec and ADAMs innovated tweeters but not woofers.  In the case of Dynaudio, they specifically innovated a component that was common to both drivers by introducing the aluminum wire-wrapped voice coil.  While the tweeter in the BM15s isn't as brilliant as the ADAMs I believe the transparency of the crossover is much better and so is the translation.  I should mention that I had never considered the Dynaudios before the listening test and I researched the components after hearing how coherent the crossover was.  It also bears mentioning that the active BM15a has a different crossover than the passive model and a new tweeter.  

But hey.....this is just my opinion and ultimately you can learn to mix on anything so...knock yourself out.  I just came to a different conclusion after some careful consideration so I thought I'd share.


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Pier Giacalone, NYC

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Greg Youngman

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2004, 04:23:34 PM »

Pier wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 11:30

But hey.....this is just my opinion and ultimately you can learn to mix on anything so...




That is so true.

Last spring, my brother and I rented a piece of crap aluminum boat for the day and went fishing.  We had been in this cove for about a half an hour when some guy and his buddy pulled in in a $50k bass boat.  They had all the latest greatest shit.  After a few hours we'd caught a bunch of small and large mouth bass, while they jerked around and caught nothing.  But hey.... they looked good!
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mantovibe

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2004, 07:57:53 PM »

FWIW I switched from BM15s to S3As.
I can still work work with the Dynaudios if I want to, since a friend of mine that lives down the street bought them from me and makes them available whenever I want.
The thing is, I would never go back to them anyway.
When I take a mix outside my (shitty) room, ther are no surprises.
I am not really an engineer. I don't have the 10-20 years of recording/mixing experience that some of you guys have.
With the Adams I just work on the music content without worries. If it doesn't sound good I try to correct it. If it sounds good I move on.
IMHO.

(I do agree that the S3As don't fill the room quite as much as the BM15s though)
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matucha

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2004, 05:45:31 AM »

They can play loud, but somehow it doesn't feel right at high volumes. However at non-dangerous levels they have lots of power to let bass transients go through unharmed/unlimited. I think the extended low response is done with sacrifice of lot of power. Try to play something with extra energy at ~35Hz and try to increase the volume slowly. It will start to complain much sooner than you like I expect.
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Fibes

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2004, 01:33:36 PM »

Sure, it's possible to learn to mix on anything lotsa great records have been mixed with bizarre monitoring setups. Having a set of monitors with clarity makes it a whole lot easier and allows me to be more efficient so I can spend time on other aspects of the mix.

FWIW i don't think of Nearfield/mid field monitors as things you crank way up to impress the fatty smokers on the couch. The ADAMS might not do the loud thang all that well but I own 'em to mix with. My mix criteria for monitors puts clarity, translation, low fatigue and a host of other things way ahead of loud.

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Fibes
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clicktrack

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2004, 07:08:47 PM »

A facility I work with recently went to the S3s.  The engineer there was raving about them and I thought "yah...ok...another set of monitors...".  No.  honestly.  I was truly blown away.  The reference material was a piece that I had tracked and he had mixed a few months back, so we both were intimate with the piece.  Listening on the S3s, you 1) truly got a better perspective on the stereo field and 2) truly got to appreciate the sound of crisp (but not harsh) set of monitors.  In a word, silky.

These were compared to the B&W 601s that were his standard...the S3s won hands down IMHO.  When I got back to my facility, I refused to power on my HR-824s for days...I needed to let my come down from the silky smooth high they were on...

If you haven't heard I highly recommmend getting a set and doing an A/B.

Wayne "ClickTrack" Hawthorne  
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Richard Brackin

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ADAM S3A plenty loud, happy with bass
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2004, 03:57:15 PM »

I'm working in a temporary, substandard room right now.
I get plenty of volume out of my S3A's.

My mixes translate evenly from a little Sony jam box from Circuit City, over to the sound system on a GMC Denali, even to my brother-in-law's massive home theater system with little variance and similar relation among the elements.

The only system that I unknowingly overhyped the bass on was inside a Cadillac CTS. I couldn't stay in the car. I blame the car, not the ADAMs.

I've got to get some stands (sound anchor) because I'm concerned some of the bass is resonating from the desk they're sitting on, even though I have them isolated to some degree.

Those monitors are SOOOO revealing.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2004, 02:36:27 AM »

My control room was very accurately acoustically designed by the same architect who did Clearmoutain's room, but it's rather small.  It's essentially 122 sq. ft. minus several very large racks full of outboard gear.  I don't have to fight with the room though to translate the monitors.  I was actually considering getting the S2.5As.  My understanding is that the second woofer on the S3As only kicks in at a certain threshold, like all wheel drive.  Is that correct?  I have soffit speakers to keep the people on the couch happy, and I can't see myself needing anything more than the 9" woofers for near field applications.  Anybody have any thoughts on the S2.5As?

Thanks.
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matucha

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2004, 04:17:34 AM »

no the 2nd woofer plays all the time at the same volume... the only difference to the bas-mid driver is it is lowpassed carefully at 150Hz to support the freq where the 7.5" driver begins naturaly to roll off.
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Roland Storch

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2004, 07:32:11 AM »

The S3A are really good monitors. I tried them too and compared them with SCM20A, KS digital ADM2, Dynaudio BM6A, JBL LSR32, PMC TB2s, Klein+Hummel O300, ...

The comparison were made in my studio with good acoustics (calculated an built by a real pro). What I liked most was the JBL LSR32 with Hafler Transnova power amp, but that?s not what I want to say because I too liked the ADAM and the ADM2 very much.

The most important thing to me was that after comparing a lot of monitors you see (hear) the weak and the strong sides of your monitors which helps you later during a mix session how to make decisions in the mix.

This reply was not intended to say which monitor is the best for me within a certain price range but but to say that I was able to improve my mixes after making comparisons form time to time because it shows you where your monitoring system together with the acoustics sounds real and where the sound leaves something to be desired - as long as you don?t use a real high end system there is always something what could be improved.
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Fibes

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Re: Got ADAM S-3As - some thoughts
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2004, 06:43:41 PM »

JJ,

The 2.5s are more like reproduction speakers (to quote several sources) IN THEIR CURVE.  the s3as are more of a production monitors. Listen for yourself, the 3s have the clarity, big time.
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Fibes
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  http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
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http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse2

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